Jim Tressel (National Champion, ex-President, Youngstown State University, CFB HOF)

[kn1f3party]

It is nonsense for anyone to suggest a coaching change in Columbus. We've become incredibly picky. We get down on a guy for doing a good job, as if doing a "good job" isn't enough. Tressel represents the Ohio State tradition, the principles of our fan base, and the philosophy we want here. Simply put, there is no better man for the job. Sure he could do a few things differently here and there. And no Buckeye fan on this planet could whole-heartedly say they weren't disappointed with the outcome Saturday night. But consider this, USC has been the team of the decade and no team that should have given them a game has given them a game lately. They came to Columbus and got a lot more than they expected and their worst fear is to line up against our squad at the end of the season. Besides, whom would you rather have? Can anyone honestly see any of the other bowl subdivision coaches in Columbus?

Our offense will improve. Regardless of your opinion, Pryor is pressing and as he gets more comfortable and more mature he'll develop. The coaching staff will make adjustments and will get this ship back on the right track. Most of us would agree at the start of the recent seasons, we never expected to be playing in those big games. Many of us that really follow this team knew we were playing out of our minds to get to the big stage and were going to have a hard time.

One of my favorite seasons to watch was the year Troy Smith came out publicly stating he should be starting. The game against Iowa was painful to watch. Zwick goes down, and here comes this scrappy kid that just refuses to lose. Troy Smith won a lot of us over with his determination and heart. He won four of the five he started including the fabled win against TSUN. He was out for the Alamo Bowl for a stupid decision and not a single one of us wasn't thinking "uh oh." But that season was gratifying because we got to watch these kids develop, mature, and show us what collegiate football is really all about. This is going to be one of those seasons too, hopefully without a lot of the drama. Our expectations are enormous on these teams lately because of our frequency on the big stage. Chillax, the kids are going to be alright.

 

[Buckeyefrankmp]

I say it again... this man has won more than 75% of his games at Ohio State... Probably more than 80 (I haven't looked it up) He did it his way... why? Because it [censored]ing works.

We can beat 75% of the teams we play on talent alone. That should be the minimum we can expect at a program like Ohio State. We are not a mid level Big Ten team where winning 75% of our games and going to a New Years day bowl game is having a good year. I want to be 75% against top ten teams, not just the bottom feeders of the Big Ten.

I am not saying we should fire Tressel. I like him as our head coach and I like him running the football program. He needs to re-evaluate his offensive coaches and make changes there. When we recruit and bring in the top talent in the O-line and they are playing this poorly, changes need to happen.

 

[BuckeyeFan 52]

Do you think that it's possible that JT knew what USC was going to run as well? In fact, prior to the game, didn't JT say that USC runs a basic scheme with a few basic plays, that they let you know what they are going to do, they just do it anyway because they are so good at it? Go back and check some pre-game articles, if you doubt me. Because Ohio State's defense basically shut down USC's offense, I think it's fair to say that Tressel essentially knew what Pete Carroll was going to do on offense.

In any event, it is clear that Carroll did not always know what Ohio State was going to run on offense. Witness the big plays in the first quarter, for which USC had no answer. In fact, on the fake bubble screen, USC overplayed the tendency (that is, theythought that they knew what was coming, but they didn't), and Ohio State got a huge play out of it.

But my arguments give your unsupported statement too much credibility. How does the conclusion "JT got out-coached" necessarily follow from the proposition (which I will assume to be true only for the sake of this discussion) "PC knew what JT was going to run"? I submit that almost every great team runs the same schemes, formations, and plays, and has the same tendencies, in almost every game. Go watch any great team over the course of a season, and you will see what I mean. Everyone knows what Florida is going to run - but few can stop it. Ditto for Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, Alabama, etc. You may like Florida's or Oklahoma's or Texas's predictable offenses more than you like Ohio State's predictable offense, but your personal preference does not lessen the predictability of those other offenses.

Talent is almost always the difference between teams ... and in a three-point game without a disparity in penalties and turnovers (like the OSU-USC game), there is no discernable difference in talent. So, with the talent being equal, why should Ohio State have varied from its basic offensive game plan? Underdogs use tricks and gimmicks and break tendencies to try to gain a competitive advantage, but if you are not the definite underdog, then why scrap what you've been doing for weeks and months and years just so that you might confuse the coach on the other sidelines? And if those tricks and gimmicks and breaking tendencies don't work, then haven't you just out-coached yourself? Again, you might not like Ohio State's offensive philosophy, but that is completely different matter from being "out-coached" on game day.

And one more thing ... if you want to be taken seriously on BP, then stop with the unsupported, conclusory arguments, namely "Here's one fact (which is really just an allegation), so I must be right." Especially if you are going to use such arguments to support a position which really just reduces to "Tressel sux!!!1!!"

I certainly do not believe that JT was "out-coached" in this football game. In fact, the only game I would even consider JT ever being "out-coached" in during his tenure at OSU was the NC game vs Florida in 2006. Those kids were not mentally prepared for that football game, neither before, nor during that game. One of the many responsibilities of a head coach of a football team is to be sure that your kids are prepared for the challenge ahead, and that wasn't the case in the desert that night. Preperation is one of Jim Tressel's strengths.

With that being said, and going back to the issue of talent, I completely agree that most of the time, a game comes down to "who is the more talented team?", and that goes for many team sports, not just football. So, in this case, we believe that our talent matched that of USC's, right?. Did our talent match USC's team last season? What about Texas in the Fiesta Bowl or in 2005? What about Florida in 2006? What about LSU in 2007? Penn State in 2008? I don't think it's ever been an issue of talent. So then why has JT and his staff struggled as of late with top ranked opponents? If it's not talent, then what is it? Bad luck? Poor officiating? Location?

I'm curious what fans and/or people close to the program think about this? There is a reason for JT's recent lack of success against top ranked opponents. It's not just a fluke, or bad luck, game planning, being "out-coached," or some other exuse. There is a "glitch" somewhere in JT's system that is not allowing them to fully meet their expectations. What is it? Because it certainly isn't talent, right?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

We can beat 75% of the teams we play on talent alone. That should be the minimum we can expect at a program like Ohio State. We are not a mid level Big Ten team where winning 75% of our games and going to a New Years day bowl game is having a good year. I want to be 75% against top ten teams, not just the bottom feeders of the Big Ten.

And why do you figure that is, even if I accept the assertion that Ohio State could just win on talent 75% of the time (which I do not)? Because the head coach and his staff are getting that talent in to Columbus. Ohio State sells itself, true enough, but it also over states it.

You and I would not hesitate to accept an offer to play at Ohio State, right? Sure. But, if Florida came calling one day, or Texas, or USC... not such an easy choice any more. Especially for a kid who grew up in Miami, Florida or the middle of Maryland... Indeed, shouldn't a kid from Jeannette PA. love Penn State? Don't we pretty much demand that of all the great Ohio players, and consider those who don't love the Buckeyes traitorous?

I am not saying we should fire Tressel. I like him as our head coach and I like him running the football program. He needs to re-evaluate his offensive coaches and make changes there. When we recruit and bring in the top talent in the O-line and they are playing this poorly, changes need to happen.

It's fair to want something different, and it's fair to have reasonable questions about what you've seen in the on the field product. No one here is taking that away from anyone.

But, at the end of the day, the Buckeyes under Jim Tressel are.. what... 85 and 25? They've won 4 straight Big Ten Titles and played for 3 NCs in 6 years. He made all that happen playing games HIS way... until that stops working, it seems rather foolish to expect change.

 

[Meyer]

Our offense outscored their offense...basically.

13-11

 

[CookyPuss]

However, tendencies are tweaked and twisted but rarely flat-out broken consistently.

Otherwise, they wouldn't be tendencies. God, I've been studying too much for the LSAT.

 

[BrownBuckeye]

Just so everybody remembers, it was Coach that brought the WildCat formation back, against Oklahoma State in the Alamo Bowl with the ShotGinn formation. Offensive Wizardry!?!? His offense game planning isn't all that bland, it is all about execution. It dosn't take a genius to see the ball inside the 5 yard line, and think that your offensive line full of 4 and 5 star recruits, and your #1 rated QB prospect 2 years ago, and my Grandma in the backfield should be able execute and to push the ball into the endzone. Tressel is the best thing that has happened to Ohio State Football and Ohio itself since Woody.

 

[Jake]

We can beat 75% of the teams we play on talent alone.

I am not saying we should fire Tressel. I like him as our head coach and I like him running the football program. He needs to re-evaluate his offensive coaches and make changes there. When we recruit and bring in the top talent in the O-line and they are playing this poorly, changes need to happen.

Pretty much my perspective as well. I love JT as head coach and a representative of my alma mater.

Unless every recruiting service is wrong, however, the offensive production is subpar given the talent on the field. Those deficiencies are magnified against top teams. As long as that continues there will be some criticism, and deservedly so as long as it is done in a respectful manner. But those who want to throw the baby out with the bath water aren't thinking it through.

 

[CookyPuss]

Honestly, the discussion going on about Tress is what really makes me hate the BCS. No longer is it as meaningful to many fans to win the Big 10. When I was a kid, beating Michigan and going to the Rose Bowl meant everything. National championships seemed to be more of an afterthought. The Bucks have been to a BCS bowl nearly every year of the Tressel regime an zero Rose Bowls. Something is seriously wrong with that. /end rant

Here's something I've been pondering. Are building a program and offensive scheme that dominates in the Big 10 (in terms of wins) and building a program and offensive scheme that wins the majority of big OOC games mutually exclusive? In other words, does building a team to win the Big 10 make it more difficult to win games against teams like USC?

 

[BrownBuckeye]

Here's something I've been pondering. Are building a program and offensive scheme that dominates in the Big 10 (in terms of wins) and building a program and offensive scheme that wins the majority of big OOC games mutually exclusive? In other words, does building a team to win the Big 10 make it more difficult to win games against teams like USC?

You put athletes like Chris Wells, and Terelle Pryor in your backfield, Ted Ginns and Joey Gallaways on the outsides, Orlando Pace and LaCharles Bentleys on the line and you should be able to compete with anyone at any time. Thats what elite schools like OSU do. It ends with the players making more plays, and fewer mistakes than the other elite teams. It comes down to players making plays. I don't care what the scheme is, Spread, I, option, single wing, or chicken wing.

 

[Ttown]

Don't mess with the Tress.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

With that being said, and going back to the issue of talent, I completely agree that most of the time, a game comes down to "who is the more talented team?", and that goes for many team sports, not just football. So, in this case, we believe that our talent matched that of USC's, right?. Did our talent match USC's team last season? What about Texas in the Fiesta Bowl or in 2005? What about Florida in 2006? What about LSU in 2007? Penn State in 2008? I don't think it's ever been an issue of talent. So then why has JT and his staff struggled as of late with top ranked opponents? If it's not talent, then what is it? Bad luck? Poor officiating? Location?

I'm curious what fans and/or people close to the program think about this? There is a reason for JT's recent lack of success against top ranked opponents. It's not just a fluke, or bad luck, game planning, being "out-coached," or some other exuse. There is a "glitch" somewhere in JT's system that is not allowing them to fully meet their expectations. What is it? Because it certainly isn't talent, right?

You present some fair questions.

First, Ohio State has experienced a talent gap in a couple of the recent big games - USC 2008 to be sure (although the team also quit to some extent after Boeckman's pick six), and I'd probably say LSU as well (although the Tigers had what amounted to a home game, and the Buckeyes made some crucial errors that night that undoubtedly had a major impact on the outcome). I can't make any definitive statement about Florida, because on that given night, the Buckeyes were completely unprepared physically, mentally, and emotionally (and yes, that is largely on the coaches), and they would have had a tough time beating Bowling Green. But it's not too difficult to believe that Florida also had a talent advantage as well, and that even a Buckeye team that was fully prepared for the game might have still lost.

In the other games, however, let's say that the overall talent was more or less equal, which is a fair assumption given that each game was a one-score contest. In Texas 2005 and Penn State 2008, one critical error by the Buckeyes was the difference - if Ryan Hamby catches an easy pass in the endzone, and if Terrelle Pryor doesn't freelance and subsequently fumble on a simple quarterback sneak, then Ohio State more than likely wins both games. Two plays - two mistakes - two losses - and Ohio State can't win the big game. Yeah, it's probably not that simple, but you see where I'm going. Call them "flukes", if you will.

Penn State 2005 was a case where a banged-up Buckeye squad with a quarterback still trying to regain his form lost in an incredibly difficult environment to a very good team. If you play that game in January on a neutral field, then maybe Ohio State pounds Penn State just like they pounded Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl. But on that given night, I think that it's fair to say that Penn State had a talent advantage, or at least that Ohio State had enough "bad luck" to put them at a clear disadvantage.

In Texas 2008, and USC 2009, the opposing quarterbacks each stepped up and made big plays in the fourth quarter, and Colt McCoy (Heisman front runner this year) and Matt Barkley (looks like a future All American) led epic game-winning drives in the final minutes. No one on Ohio State's defense was able to step up and make a huge play to stop either drive. In other words, their great players made plays in the clutch, and ours didn't - it just happens that way some times. No excuses - just give credit to the other team for having just enough to get the job done.

As far as any "'glitch' somewhere in JT's system that is not allowing them to fully meet their expectations", well MAYBE there is a slight grain truth in that statement. Many people accuse Tressel of playing not to lose, and certainly the whole key to Tresselball is to put pressure on the opponents and force them to make the crucial mistake in the clutch. The potential problem with Tresselball is twofold: (1) elite opponents do not often "crack" regardless of what you do to them, and (2) Tresselball often puts the same amount of pressure on your own team, and sometimes your guys are the one who "crack". Could the latter explain some of the near misses? Perhaps Texas 2005 and Penn State 2008, where one miscue by an Ohio State player late in the game turned the tide against the Buckeyes.

Regardless of a coach's philosophy, sometimes players play not to lose. This is only natural - no one wants to make the crucial mistake at the critical time that will ultimately lose the game. So, in the clutch, some players might tend to think more and react less, to lose confidence in their own abilities, and to play tentative in general. If the head coach has a "play not to lose" mentality, will that rub off on his players and heighten that natural tendency? I honestly do not know the answer to that question, but it might be a factor in games like Texas 2008 and USC 2009, when a young but talented Buckeye team seemed to "let the foot off the pedal" down the stretch, especially on defense. However, it could be that youth and inexperience alone are enough to explain those results.

In the end, it is just plain difficult to beat elite teams, no matter who you are, and that is the biggest factor of all.

 

[BuckeyePride]

how can I send an email or letter to the coach? I love this coach. gotta show support. I know that I try hard enough, I can find the email or address. But then When would the Planet come in handy?

Strong D. Conservative offense, Running the ball and solid Special teams. I love this philosophy of Football. I am a fan of this style and that's why I am a fan of JT. It's the execution that has been a problem. Everyone is at fault when that happens. Players & coaches. Look at Steelers, NY Giants...they've won superbowl with that style.

 

[Merih]

how can I send an email or letter to the coach? I love this coach. gotta show support. I know that I try hard enough, I can find the email or address. But then When would the Planet come in handy?

Strong D. Conservative offense, Running the ball and solid Special teams. I love this philosophy of Football. I am a fan of this style and that's why I am a fan of JT. It's the execution that has been a problem. Everyone is at fault when that happens. Players & coaches. Look at Steelers, NY Giants...they've won superbowl with that style.

Actually, LordJeffBuck is already putting together a BP "Support Tressel" email that will be sent to the coaches email address!

Just post in this thread:

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/...51-official-support-coach-tressel-thread.html

 

[lvbuckeye]

I am happy with a team that consistently averages 10+ wins a year, and the only "top whatever" that I am interested in is top-10 in the polls.

keep in mind winning 10 games a year is a lot easier now they get to play 13 or 14.

Why is it so freakin' important for Ohio State to run an offense that is a thing of beauty? Seriously....

why is it so important for Ohio State to run an offense that looks like it can't get out of its own way?

No, you are completely missing the point, which is "a win is a win is a win." Why does it matter if Ohio State wins big or small, pretty or ugly? Who cares what happened three years ago? (Unless you are a closet Miami fan....)

great. now i'm not a Buckeye. sure, a win is a win is a win. however because i'm a Buckeye, and BECAUSE i grew up in C-Bus, and BECAUSE my mother grew up 2 streets over from the Tressel's in Berea, and BECAUSE my father has one of only three pieces of the goalpost from 1968, (which were enscribed by Woody: Nov 23 1968 OSU 50 MICH 14) my father has one, his best friend Dick Crowell got one, and Woody got one. are my Buckeye fan credentials established enough for you? because of this, i understand that running the ball down the throats of undermanned opponents is part of that tradition, not looking like clown cars on 4th and fucking 2 against Navy. are we honestly surprised when we can't pick up 3rd or 4th and short against USC? hell no. we don't do it against the shit teams, why should we expect more against good teams?

how often has Tressel met his "goals" on offense? i'm thinking that you can dang near count on one hand the number of times Ohio State has had 250 yards passing and 200 yards rushing. out of 100 tries, that's not a very good ratio.

And if talent is so important, as you claim in the final sentence, then I guess that play calling and schemes and philosophy really aren't such big issues, now are they?

i just want to know why we can't have a good offense.

Look, I'm not claiming to be an expert on football strategy, and I'm not saying that you are not. I don't know why JT has a much more conservative offensive philosophy than, say, Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops or Mack Brown ... all I know is that JT's philosophy generally works. because we generally have more talent then 90% of our opponents Has he had some problems in big games recently? Sure, but if we take out Florida, LSU, and USC 2008, then every other recent "big game" loss (Texas 2005, Penn State 2005, Illinois 2007, Penn State 2008, Texas 2008, and USC 2009) have been by seven points or less, and in at least four of those games (Texas 2005, Penn State 2008, Texas 2008, and USC 2009), Ohio State had a lead in the fourth quarter. In other words, if we ignore the three blow out losses (and I realize that most fans can't do so and that's why were even having this discussion right now), then Ohio State basically played the opponent "even" the other six big game match-ups ... NO. not "even." "even" would indicate a 50/50 win-loss split and of those six opponents, which ones were clearly less talented that Ohio State? Illinois 2007, to be sure, but the other five teams were equal to or better than Ohio State. So, despite its lack of elegance and grace, JT's offense is generally capable of competing with the "elite" of college football. Maybe "competing" will become "beating" with a slight infusion of talent....

bold.
how much more talent do we need to execute Dave?

If Ohio State would have held on to beat USC 15-10, would any of the issues (lack of creativity, predictability, ultra-conservatism) really be any different? I say "no" ... certain people would still be complaining today. And really, this is not the time to complain about Ohio State, as they almost knocked off a team that is the closest thing to a dynasty in college football today.

GREAT. now we're fucking Charlie Weis: hanging our hat on almost beating USC... i just puked again.

I remember the days, not too long ago, when Ohio State fans were complaining about 0.0 GPA's, Prop 48's, felony arrests, 2-10-1, etc. Yeah, JT ain't perfect, but bitching about his conservative offensive is just nit-picking....

whatever...