Jameis Winston (QB Browns)

[buxfan4life]

No offense, but I would think that an FSU student would be an excellent source of wishful thinking rumors but poor source of any facts. ESPN and Yahoo have their issues, but they can probably stay out in front of the FSU student body.

We are floating in a sea of rumor and innuendo. Even the so called "facts" are mostly rumored facts.

I'm not even sure what it would mean to "clear" Winston. "Clearing" implies clearing of charges. But no charges have been filed. Seems to me this only really goes completely away if the girl withdraws her complaint. I have a relative who has been fighting a rape charge with less basis than this for a year and a half. Charges have been dismissed only to be brought back via a different avenue. You don't have to be legally be charged with anything in order to have to clear your name in the public domain.

As far as it being similar to Hyde in that it was "exaggerated" - it was rape or it wasn't. You don't need to exaggerate rape. Hyde was originally accused of knocking a woman out cold in the media and message boards, yet when all was said and done, he did nothing of the sort. Based on what I have heard from various sources (some FSU friendly and others not), the filed report was revenge and not truly rape. In other words, she did the deed knowingly and consensual, but then got pissed when he rebuffed her later and decided to take it up a notch to get back at him. So, I would call this type of action exaggerating on a police report. Remember the Duke Lacrosse Team and what happened to them. That was not rape, yet that is what the woman reported it as to the police.

But I still believe anything coming from the FSU student body is just them believing the rumors they want to believe. And this very well could be that, but based on the different folks I have heard essentially the same story from, I am inclined to believe there is a lot of truth to it.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

As far as it being similar to Hyde in that it was "exaggerated" - it was rape or it wasn't. You don't need to exaggerate rape. Hyde was originally accused of knocking a woman out cold in the media and message boards, yet when all was said and done, he did nothing of the sort. Based on what I have heard from various sources (some FSU friendly and others not), the filed report was revenge and not truly rape. In other words, she did the deed knowingly and consensual, but then got pissed when he rebuffed her later and decided to take it up a notch to get back at him. So, I would call this type of action exaggerating on a police report. Remember the Duke Lacrosse Team and what happened to them. That was not rape, yet that is what the woman reported it as to the police.

But didn't she file the report within two hours of the act? Not a lot of time for the whole rebuffed for girlfriend scenario to play out. It's not like she filed two or three days later after several texts/phone calls to JW went unanswered.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

BTW, I wonder if the felony indictments that just came down in Ohio are weighing on the minds of any FSU admins and Tallahassee police? If I were them, I might be considering the possible ramifications of my actions on my cornhole about right now.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Jock sniffing is a funny thing, and I'm certain it eventually leads to full retardation. I can't escape the irony that most of those white frat boys, townies and football fans would be dead certain that the victim was telling the truth if this guy were a walk-on safety much less some anonymous black law student.

Well, sure. That dadgummed colored boy in the law school only got in by way of that guldurned affirmative action. But this here negro boy here got into our fine institution on his own merit.

And he sure can throw the dadgummed foowball.

 

[kujirakira]

If the case does get dropped. The TPD and FSU better make damn sure that the girl and her lawyer keep their mouths shut. If she is still claiming she was raped and charges aren't filed this will get really ugly for everyone. The PD has screwed up this case so bad already I don't see how they can not press charges unless there is overwhelming evidence that it was consensual.

(emphasis mine)

The PD's incompetence has no bearing on the Prosecutor's standard of evidence to carry the case forward.
Nor should it. When you start doing "make up calls" like that... innocent people get convicted.

 

[kujirakira]

Hyde was originally accused of knocking a woman out cold in the media and message boards, yet when all was said and done, he did nothing of the sort. Based on what I have heard from various sources (some FSU friendly and others not), the filed report was revenge and not truly rape. In other words, she did the deed knowingly and consensual, but then got pissed when he rebuffed her later and decided to take it up a notch to get back at him. So, I would call this type of action exaggerating on a police report.

And the Columbus PD investigated Hyde's incident and discovered the truth of the matter.
In this case the Tallahassee PD refused to carry out a standard investigation -- and thus we have nothing but Campus Rumors and Hearsay to go off of.

The only similarity between the 2 is that there were police reports alleging some form of violence against women.
The similarities end there.
Columbus PD investigated Hyde and he was suspended from the program for 3 games; despite being vindicated.
Tallahassee PD swept this under the rug and Winston has not been touched by the team.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Well, sure. That dadgummed colored boy in the law school only got in by way of that guldurned affirmative action.

What should he expect? Welcome, Sonny. Make yourself at home. Marry my daughter. You've got to remember that these are just simple rednecks. These are people of Florida State University. The common clay of the new South. You know... morons.

 

[kujirakira]

What has Winston's supporting witness attested to in these affidavits?

How can Winston's witnesses support his contention that the alleged victim gave consent?

What was the alleged victim tox reports? (I have not seen any news reports that deal with the issue of if the alleged victim may have had a "date rape drug" in her system.

The alleged rape took place in December. The alleged victim and police did not identify Winston as the suspect until the following January. How does this fact support the claim of rape or the claim of consent?

A rape kit analysis was preformed at a hospital. What will the health care professionals be willing to testify to as to the alleged victims state of mind 4 hours after the alleged rape.

These are just some of the questions that I believe need answers before anyone can opine on the success of this case.

Lastly 2 comments on your facts

1) The victim attorney has stated that she never wanted to "not pursue" this matter. She did ask some space at one time to seek help from rape counseling.

2) I think you are wrong about the Winston's witnesses statements standing as unimpeached. First off, since we don't know what these statement are it is impossible to say if they can't be impeached. Second, my sense is that Winston's lawyer is doing what any lawyer would do in a high profile case such as this one. That is put a narrative out to the public that supports his clients story in advance of any charges being brought. Lastly, at the very least any prosecutor would try to impeach a supporting witness on the basis that he is lying to protect a friend.

- We don't know the specifics, but according to Winston's lawyer they corroborate Winston's claims and were present.
- It would appear one is male and one is female; the male was also DNA tested (no match) -- apparently just to rule out the possibility of gang rape or something else. As the prosecutor stated, they didn't have any particular suspicions -- but just wanted to cover all their bases since it's already been botched so badly.
- The family's lawyer stated police informed her she was not intoxicated.
- The question regarding "state of mind" could be crucial; but is it enough to outweigh Winston's "I was there" witnesses?
- The victim's attorney has had conflicting statements regarding her client's intentions wrt the case. On one hand she has stated "my client never stated she didn't intend to go forward" ... which is akin to say they never made a firm decision. On other occasions the lawyer has commented how her client has "just been trying to move on with her life" ... which suggests that she may not have intended to proceed. Now that it's all been dragged up and she's being burned in effigy by crazy people in Florida... I would surmise only those closest to her have the slightest clue what her intentions are at this point.
- It doesn't take a genius to figure out the witness statements, even if true in substance, would have been crafted by this point in time. They've had 6+ months to corroborate and perfect their story, and without a deposition / investigation done by police in the immediate aftermath there is nothing on the record to dispute their story.

Finally, I didn't reach any hard conclusions regarding the case except to say it's "likely" it will be dropped for lack of evidence and the Prosecution faces a very stiff uphill battle this late in the process with the Tallahassee PD having effectively botched the case.
Like I said, unless there is some "caught red handed" evidence either way... this will always hang as a cloud b/c of the way it was (mis)handled by the Police.

 

[sflbuck]

- We don't know the specifics, but according to Winston's lawyer they corroborate Winston's claims and were present.
- It would appear one is male and one is female; the male was also DNA tested (no match) -- apparently just to rule out the possibility of gang rape or something else. As the prosecutor stated, they didn't have any particular suspicions -- but just wanted to cover all their bases since it's already been botched so badly.
- The family's lawyer stated police informed her she was not intoxicated.
- The question regarding "state of mind" could be crucial; but is it enough to outweigh Winston's "I was there" witnesses?
- The victim's attorney has had conflicting statements regarding her client's intentions wrt the case. On one hand she has stated "my client never stated she didn't intend to go forward" ... which is akin to say they never made a firm decision. On other occasions the lawyer has commented how her client has "just been trying to move on with her life" ... which suggests that she may not have intended to proceed. Now that it's all been dragged up and she's being burned in effigy by crazy people in Florida... I would surmise only those closest to her have the slightest clue what her intentions are at this point.
- It doesn't take a genius to figure out the witness statements, even if true in substance, would have been crafted by this point in time. They've had 6+ months to corroborate and perfect their story, and without a deposition / investigation done by police in the immediate aftermath there is nothing on the record to dispute their story.

Finally, I didn't reach any hard conclusions regarding the case except to say it's "likely" it will be dropped for lack of evidence and the Prosecution faces a very stiff uphill battle this late in the process with the Tallahassee PD having effectively botched the case.
Like I said, unless there is some "caught red handed" evidence either way... this will always hang as a cloud b/c of the way it was (mis)handled by the Police.

OK- You said your peace and I said mine. I will wait for the DA to say his and see where we are.

 

[AKAK]

crazy people in Florida....

qft

 

[Woody1968]

- The victim's attorney has had conflicting statements regarding her client's intentions wrt the case. On one hand she has stated "my client never stated she didn't intend to go forward" ... which is akin to say they never made a firm decision. On other occasions the lawyer has commented how her client has "just been trying to move on with her life" ... which suggests that she may not have intended to proceed. Now that it's all been dragged up and she's being burned in effigy by crazy people in Florida... I would surmise only those closest to her have the slightest clue what her intentions are at this point.

Really think you are reading waaaay to much about the victim's intent into these statements.

 

[kujirakira]

All I'm "reading into it" is that it's not clear what her intentions wrt the case were before this was brought up to the media, or what they are now.
Uncertainty is "reading into it" ?

If somebody were to take that first statement from her lawyer, and claim that means she definitely intended to pursue the matter ... I think that would be reading into it. The phrasing her lawyer used is rather ambiguous, and therefore I'm not reading into it.

 

[Woody1968]

All I'm "reading into it" is that it's not clear what her intentions wrt the case were before this was brought up to the media, or what they are now.
Uncertainty is "reading into it" ?

If somebody were to take that first statement from her lawyer, and claim that means she definitely intended to pursue the matter ... I think that would be reading into it. The phrasing her lawyer used is rather ambiguous, and therefore I'm not reading into it.

I don't see any statement from either her, or her lawyer that indicate to me that she is not participating in the investigation. As for pursuing the matter, it is really out of her hands at this point, as victims do not bring charges in criminal matters, the state does.

 

[BUCKYLE]

All I'm "reading into it" is that it's not clear what her intentions wrt the case were before this was brought up to the media, or what they are now.
Uncertainty is "reading into it" ?

If somebody were to take that first statement from her lawyer, and claim that means she definitely intended to pursue the matter ... I think that would be reading into it. The phrasing her lawyer used is rather ambiguous, and therefore I'm not reading into it.

The way I'm reading those statements...if you insert the TPD telling her "shit gon' go bad fer her if she keeps on", in between the two statements....

It's like the lawyer was saying that the woman had not told the police to stop doing their job, but after they basically told her to shut her whore mouth or else, she was trying to get on with her life because, well, the popo made it clear to her they weren't planning on doing shit, and if she didn't move on, bad things could might happen *winkwink

 

[Woody1968]

The way I'm reading those statements...if you insert the TPD telling her "[Mark May] gon' go bad fer her if she keeps on", in between the two statements....

It's like the lawyer was saying that the woman had not told the police to stop doing their job, but after they basically told her to shut her whore mouth or else, she was trying to get on with her life because, well, the popo made it clear to her they weren't planning on doing [Mark May], and if she didn't move on, bad things could might happen *winkwink

Not only that, but "moving on with her life" does not require that she not participate in the investigation.