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Indians Tidbits (2009 season)

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I'm tired of this BS about Cliff Lee not being in the same Zip Code as Halladay as if the latter won the Cy Young last year and the former didn't...

Which isn't to say I wouldn't take Halladay over Lee. I would. But its ridiculous to continue to argue as if Cliff is somehow the 3rd starter on a good team. He's a bona fide Ace and has been for the last two years. Not a fluke - the guy just got it together.

I'm tired of the mentality that we should be happy just to get some prospects and sell (supposedly) high when these guys have a year left on their contracts.

We rebuilt for 5 [censored]ing years to get to 2007. Now we're told we have to rebuild again. And then what? One run and another rebuilding effort?

[censored] that. [censored] baseball. Get a salary cap and I might come back.
 
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OH10;1508293; said:
I'm tired of this BS about Cliff Lee not being in the same Zip Code as Halladay as if the latter won the Cy Young last year and the former didn't...

Which isn't to say I wouldn't take Halladay over Lee. I would. But its ridiculous to continue to argue as if Cliff is somehow the 3rd starter on a good team. He's a bona fide Ace and has been for the last two years. Not a fluke - the guy just got it together.

I'm tired of the mentality that we should be happy just to get some prospects and sell (supposedly) high when these guys have a year left on their contracts.

We rebuilt for 5 [censored]ing years to get to 2007. Now we're told we have to rebuild again. And then what? One run and another rebuilding effort?

[censored] that. [censored] baseball. Get a salary cap and I might come back.
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#1- He isn't. No matter how much you want him to be, he's just not. He's not an ace on a good team. Aces don't allow 165 hits in 152 innings. He was phenominal last year and pretty good this year. Ideally, he's a #2 and we got a #2's return for him.
#2- Again, what good does keeping these guys do for the future of this organization? Nothing.
#3- It took 2 years to get from '03 to '05 when they just missed the postseason. That's not unreasonable. With a smarter FO, hopefully they can have more sustained success. They're stocking the system just like they did in '02-'03. Actually, they're bringing in more talent IMO.
#4- :tibor: If it bothers you this much, perhaps you shouldn't follow it. You've chastized Cleveland fans for other things, I think you fall into the group that can't comprehend that this organization does pretty well for a small market team and thinks our players are more valuable than they are. It's a shitty system, but it's all we've got.
 
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OH10;1508293; said:
I'm tired of this BS about Cliff Lee not being in the same Zip Code as Halladay as if the latter won the Cy Young last year and the former didn't...

Which isn't to say I wouldn't take Halladay over Lee. I would. But its ridiculous to continue to argue as if Cliff is somehow the 3rd starter on a good team. He's a bona fide Ace and has been for the last two years. Not a fluke - the guy just got it together.

I'm tired of the mentality that we should be happy just to get some prospects and sell (supposedly) high when these guys have a year left on their contracts.

We rebuilt for 5 [censored]ing years to get to 2007. Now we're told we have to rebuild again. And then what? One run and another rebuilding effort?

[censored] that. [censored] baseball. Get a salary cap and I might come back.
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look at halladay's career and cliff lee's and see why one is so much more valuable than the other.

as far as the rebuilding process, the problem is that cleveland's player drafting and development of guys making the jump from AAA to the big team has been subpar, which lead to the inability to sustain success with young talent. a lot of that is on wedge's misuse of young guys.
 
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buckeyemania11;1508302; said:
why do you need 3 catchers?

will they ever let LaPorta play?
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Who the fuck knows. I'm just hoping to God that this is the death rattle of the Shapiro/Wedge regime. Shapiro makes some nice moves trade-wise, but he is terrible at handling that talent. Wedge, well, we've beaten that horse into puddy.
 
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buckeyemania11;1508313; said:
the real comedy is who our ace is going to be next year

hopefully Fausto finds his control (hes starting tonight)

if not who the heck is it? Sowers :slappy:? Huff?
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Next year's gonna be rough. But if going 65-97 next year means them loading up for another run in 2012, vs. going 76-86 next year and still having to rebuild...I'll take the route they're going now.
 
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NFBuck;1508315; said:
Next year's gonna be rough. But if going 65-97 next year means them loading up for another run in 2012, vs. going 76-86 next year and still having to rebuild...I'll take the route they're going now.
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any logical fan can see that next year is going to be a train wreck

however, the genius brain power Shapiro thinks they are going to contend :lol:

"I still feel this team can contend next year. It'll be a young, exciting core of players," continued Shapiro, "It would be a Florida Marlins-type of a story, everything would have to go right."
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OH10;1508293; said:
I'm tired of this BS about Cliff Lee not being in the same Zip Code as Halladay as if the latter won the Cy Young last year and the former didn't...

Which isn't to say I wouldn't take Halladay over Lee. I would. But its ridiculous to continue to argue as if Cliff is somehow the 3rd starter on a good team. He's a bona fide Ace and has been for the last two years. Not a fluke - the guy just got it together.
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Cliff Lee is a good pitcher. He was our ace. We got good players for him. We didn't get best-pitcher-in-baseball prospects back for him. That's not what he is.. The Blue Jays are making unreasonable demands for Halladay. Don't use that as a basis for your desires for Lee, because what Toronto wanted was too much for the best pitcher in baseball.

Cliff Lee isn't going to sniff that. Sorry.

I'm tired of the mentality that we should be happy just to get some prospects and sell (supposedly) high when these guys have a year left on their contracts.
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Some prospects? Give them some fucking credit. Jesus. The Indians are getting good prospects with loads of potential.

So we should let them play for a non-contender next year just because they're cheap, rather than selling high and trying to rebuild? These are the options:

1) Do what Cleveland did and sell now, with a year left on their contracts. This gives them the most in return (but it's apparently stupid because we don't get anything in return :!)

2) Trade them next year when we're still not going to be contending for less. Bad idea if we're not going to be contending if we could've traded them this year, which we did.

3) Not trade them and let them leave. They probably would've, with maybe the exception of Victor. We got good return for Victor.

So what the hell do you want them to do? They could've done what they did now and sell high and try to build a contender, or wait and hurt the team's future.

We rebuilt for 5 [censored]ing years to get to 2007. Now we're told we have to rebuild again. And then what? One run and another rebuilding effort?
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Do you want them to be losers forever? This group of players isn't going anywhere. Get them out of here and start over again. It's the only option if you want to see a winning team.

[censored] that. [censored] baseball. Get a salary cap and I might come back.
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I'd like a cap too.

In summary, if you think the trades are bad this year, what the fuck do you think they'd look like next year? :shake:
 
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3074326;1508319; said:
Eh, he kind of has to say that. He acknowledges that everything has to go right.
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Yeah, at this point, he's playing politics. He has to say that kind of shit, especially when there are rumors of him moving upstairs to team president. Anybody with the IQ of a sloth can see this is going to be an awful team next year...barring absolutely everything going right.

Now, if Wedge said that (and in essence, he did about this years team in the 2nd half), I think he'd actually believe it.

All of this is a rabbit trail, however, if Wedge isn't fired. He is fucking kryptonite to young players. If he remains the manager, this organization is royally fucked.
 
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Shapiro implied that because of the $16 million saved on the 2010 options for Lee and Martinez that he should have some -- probably not $16 million, but some -- money to spend this offseason.
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since when does Shapiro actually spend on QUALITY free agents?

this just means we get a few more David Dellucci and Carl Pavano types
 
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