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Indians Tidbits (2009 season)

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tsteele316;1507444; said:
to say cleveland got fleeced is simply whining for the sake of whining.
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And to defend every trade made by any Cleveland organization is...


Saying Cleveland got fleeced is simply the majority view: ESPN.com had a fan poll on the trade yesterday that had like 80% (including about the same percent in Ohio) saying the Phils got the better of the deal. Tribe fans can find the good in it, as it's not a terrible deal all things considered, but it's a reasonable opinion that it could have been better.
 
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BayBuck;1507461; said:
And to defend every trade made by any Cleveland organization is...
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actually, had you followed the thread I initially said that cleveland didn't maximize their value because other teams knew they were trying to dump salary. and, outside of the brandon phillips trade, defending the trades cleveland makes generally puts you on the right side of the fence. try again.
 
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tsteele316;1507467; said:
actually, had you followed the thread I initially said that cleveland didn't maximize their value because other teams knew they were trying to dump salary. and, outside of the brandon phillips trade, defending the trades cleveland makes generally puts you on the right side of the fence. try again.
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Sorry, we were looking for "being a homer". (Which is not a bad thing, that's what fans are for, but others can be critical of this trade without "whining for the sake of whining") Try again. :tongue2:
 
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BayBuck;1507469; said:
Sorry, we were looking for "being a homer". (Which is not a bad thing, that's what fans are for, but others can be critical of this trade without "whining for the sake of whining") Try again. :tongue2:
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how was me saying pages ago that they should have held out for Taylor, make me a homer? is it because i immediately didn't climb out on the ledge with the other chicken littles without first really looking at who cleveland got compared to what was rumored to be available on the market? if that makes me a homer fine. i'd call it being rational.
 
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AKAKBUCK;1507450; said:
Add to that that there aren't as many buyers as last year. We were fortunate (hopefully) that the Brewers got into the Sabathia sweepstakes last year. This year the only real players were Boston and Philly and there are 2 marquis guys out there... So, really, they were probably lucky to get what they did. As to the point of no 2005 to 2007 guys contributing, yeah, that's a good reason to add numbers...

As to Victor... we'll see... if he does get traded, I think that's the end of Wedge...
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I really hope Wedge is gone regardless, and I think he will be.

BayBuck;1507461; said:
And to defend every trade made by any Cleveland organization is...


Saying Cleveland got fleeced is simply the majority view: ESPN.com had a fan poll on the trade yesterday that had like 80% (including about the same percent in Ohio) saying the Phils got the better of the deal. Tribe fans can find the good in it, as it's not a terrible deal all things considered, but it's a reasonable opinion that it could have been better.
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I just don't see how things could have been better. Would you rather let Lee walk after next year, or take your chances at the deadline next year and get even less for him? Shapiro got the best value he could and I truly belive that.

I wasn't initially thrilled about the trade, because everybody had the viewpoint that we would be able to command at least 1 flat out stud prospect. But what we got are two pitchers with very high ceilings and two position players who are major league ready. I'll take it.
 
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a few points overall:

1. wedge better be gone. if you want to generate any semblence of fan support for 2010, you better can him. i honestly think his misuse of the pitching staff, bullpen, and ridiculous lineups hurt this team as much as the lack of overall talent.

2. cleveland could have let lee walk after next year and got 2 1st round draft picks. but, this organization does not draft well at all. whether it's because the scouting department is bad, or they take the safe picks with lower ceilings to ensure signability, they simply don't do well.

3. at least 2, possibly 3 of the guys they just traded for will be with the big club next year.
 
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Brutus1;1507252; said:
No offense, But I think I'll believe a baseball guy like Jason Stark when he says as such. JP Ricchardi even said none of those 4 were the ones they wanted! It really says something about your evaluation when none of the players you got in a trade were among the 4 that Toronto wanted.

Are you guys that like this trade setting the bar so low that any trade involving prospects is considered good ?
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So we should expect ridiculous overpayment for Lee because Toronto wanted ridiculous overpayment for Halladay? Two of the top 50 prospects in the nation sounds fucking awful! We should've received Philadelphia's four best prospects/four top 50 players!

This trade wasn't bad. Wasn't the best, but 1) it could've been far worse and 2) we got some pretty good, young talent out of it, along with a nice salary dump that should allow some space if they want to sign someone in the offseason.
 
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meltdown.jpg
 
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3074326;1507581; said:
So we should expect ridiculous overpayment for Lee...
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Well, frankly, that's my hope with every Indian trade... that the other team has no sense of fairness and provides their top 5 players AND prospects for every one of ours... and there's something wrong with that? :wink2: ... BTW, this isn't sarcastic.. it's how I feel
 
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NJ-Buckeye;1507590; said:
Well, frankly, that's my hope with every Indian trade... that the other team has no sense of fairness and provides their top 5 players AND prospects for every one of ours... and there's something wrong with that? :wink2: ... BTW, this isn't sarcastic.. it's how I feel
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Hey, I'd be fine with it if it happened. :tongue2:
 
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3074326;1507581; said:
So we should expect ridiculous overpayment for Lee because Toronto wanted ridiculous overpayment for Halladay? Two of the top 50 prospects in the nation sounds fucking awful! We should've received Philadelphia's four best prospects/four top 50 players!

This trade wasn't bad. Wasn't the best, but 1) it could've been far worse and 2) we got some pretty good, young talent out of it, along with a nice salary dump that should allow some space if they want to sign someone in the offseason.
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This trade wasn't bad. Wasn't the best, but 1) it could've been far worse

Totally agree

Happ, Drabek and etc were most likely not going for Halladay, who has a longer track record than Lee, so there is no way they were going for Lee. Cliff has always given up way too many hits to be a true ace, IMO. Halladay is a #1 and Lee is a #2 to me.

Personally I don't believe anything out of baseball people like Peter Gammons when it comes to the Red Sox (Wedge will be a star/when drafted Sowers is fantastic) or Buster Olney when it comes to the Yankees or Jayson Stark (Philly native, Philly Inquirer reporter, Phillies "beatwriter") when it comes to the Phillies because the fan in them comes out more than their objectivity.

Like STO talking heads and hacks Drennan (they can contend next year if they do this and this and this and this goes right and that goes right and they sign this guy even though the payroll's got to decrease. If they don't then trade them then) or Schwab (it stinks they've given up on next year already).

This "core group"'s run is over and it's time to close their window to potentially (which is all small to mid-market teams have) open up a window in less time than the Colon trade.

Trade Victor and hire a new manager (not Hargrove) who doesn't play favorites for the new prospects and let's go.
 
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Trevor Crowe > Matt LaPorta clearly

you would think if you are "building for the future" it would be a smart idea to have your best prospect up and playing.....

good thing we have a group of geniuses running this club
 
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