Indians Tidbits (2009 season)

[Fungo Squiggly]

No worries...


MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Oh, hell yes. I'm ordering my WS tickets right now.

 

[Brutus1]

When you trade a Cy Young winner for " prospects" and the gem being an 18 year old pitcher, then you've gotten fleeced. How many great 18 year old pitching prospects have bombed out ? Too many. Interestingly, none of the players Philly was offering in the Halladay trade were in the Lee trade.

At the very least Shapiro could have forced Philly to include JA Happ in the deal, since Drabek was a deal breaker.

Now, if they got a major leaguer like Happ, in addition to Knapp, then I would call that a good trade. I guess we'll have to wait 3 years to see if Knapp can pitch in the bigs. I'm just not crossing my fingers and holding my breath.

 

[OH10]

Horrible trade. We got about .25 to that dollar.

 

[Basebuck]

Great trade. Now we can wait for these prospects to develop and then get traded away. I'm glad I quit being invested in this team after they broke up the mid 90's teams.

How can anyone enjoy being a fan of a team that constantly parts with it's best players?

 

[NFBuck]

I think Tribe fans are seriously overestimating Cliff Lee's value. All I see is people wanting Drabek or Happ or Brown...all guys Philly didn't want to part with for Halladay. Sorry, Cliff, for as good as he's been most of the past two seasons, isn't in Halladay's league. Not now and not track record. Lets not forget, this is a guy who was demoted to the minors and left off the postseason roster just two years ago and has spent some time complaining to the press this season (Not saying it wasn't justified, but it's a knock in many's eyes). Francisco is a throwaway and clears room for LaPorta so no harm done there.

I don't think it's the greatest deal, but one thing Shapiro has a good track record for is these kind of deals. Add the other moves this year and I think some good things are being done. Maybe I'm just not as upset because I didn't expect to get as much for Lee as most Tribe fans apparently did. Reviews from most baseball people are calling it a good trade for both sides too. Lets wait and see what Victor brings before climbing up on some ledge. Just a word of warning, Victor has been playing awful baseball for about 2 months now, so anybody expecting to be bowled over shouldn't get their hopes up. If they can get one of the Sawks better prospecs and a couple other decent prospects, we should be happy.

Great trade. Now we can wait for these prospects to develop and then get traded away. I'm glad I quit being invested in this team after they broke up the mid 90's teams.

How can anyone enjoy being a fan of a team that constantly parts with it's best players?

Constantly? Besides C.C. (who they had no choice to trade because of the way somebody was destined to overpay...and the Yanks did overpay) and now Cliff, they've been pretty dormant in the trade market since 2002 when the last major shakeup occured. Such is the life of a small time franchise...

 

[Meyer]

We got two of the top 50 prospects in America with this trade. Not saying whether it was a good or bad trade... cause I don't know.

 

[tsteele316]

When you trade a Cy Young winner for " prospects" and the gem being an 18 year old pitcher, then you've gotten fleeced. How many great 18 year old pitching prospects have bombed out ? Too many. Interestingly, none of the players Philly was offering in the Halladay trade were in the Lee trade.

At the very least Shapiro could have forced Philly to include JA Happ in the deal, since Drabek was a deal breaker.

Now, if they got a major leaguer like Happ, in addition to Knapp, then I would call that a good trade. I guess we'll have to wait 3 years to see if Knapp can pitch in the bigs. I'm just not crossing my fingers and holding my breath.

false. philly refused to offer drabek and brown to toronto as well. happ was as high as they would go for halliday, and cliff lee is not halliday.

 

[NFBuck]

false. philly refused to offer drabek and brown to toronto as well. happ was as high as they would go for halliday, and cliff lee is not halliday.

Bingo. Cliff Lee had one supernatural season followed by a pretty good year this year, yet Tribe fan's have allowed themselves to believe he is worth far more than he is.

 

[Jake]

Great trade. Now we can wait for these prospects to develop and then get traded away. I'm glad I quit being invested in this team after they broke up the mid 90's teams.

How can anyone enjoy being a fan of a team that constantly parts with it's best players?

Trade them or wait for them to leave via free agency for Boston, New York, Chicago or LA. Take your pick. That's the wonderful MLB we live in these days.

 

[OH10]

Bingo. Cliff Lee had one supernatural season followed by a pretty good year this year, yet Tribe fan's have allowed themselves to believe he is worth far more than he is.

I would have agreed with this assessment had Cliff not come back strong again this year. He's the reigning Cy Young winner; his ERA is under 3.20 this year, making him again one of the top pitchers in the AL; and he has one year left on a favorable deal.

For the Tribe not to be able to pick up even one of the Phillies' top 3 prospects in return is indefensible... especially when you consider that this team underachieved this year AND there is no reason to think that they couldn't turn it around next year with new management in place.

They didn't need to make this trade. It was a luxury we could afford for the right price and we got the wrong [censored]ing price. Shapiro got hosed.

EDIT: I think some of you are just happy to make any kind of deal here. We basically got a couple of turds and some straggling dingleberries in this trade for one of the top lefties in the game. More people should be [censored]ed about that - and the fact that there is any sentiment of satisfaction says a ton about the expectations for this franchise - which is to say there are none.

 

[Basebuck]

Constantly? Besides C.C. (who they had no choice to trade because of the way somebody was destined to overpay...and the Yanks did overpay) and now Cliff, they've been pretty dormant in the trade market since 2002 when the last major shakeup occured. Such is the life of a small time franchise...

It taken them since 2002 to build a pretty good core group of players. Just like it took them from 1996?- 2002 to build that team. I just get sick of watching teams build from the ground up only to be forced to let the guys they developed go to a major market team. It's ruined baseball fand for that matter, all Pro sports for me.

 

[scarletandgrey]

Bingo. Cliff Lee had one supernatural season followed by a pretty good year this year, yet Tribe fan's have allowed themselves to believe he is worth far more than he is.

I agree that we as fans put a higher value on our players than what thier market value is. BUT this was a horrible trade and we deserved more out of Lee rather than just dumping him for more prospects.

We constantly trade every year for more prospects, and then as soon as they develop into MLB caliber players we trade them for what? Yep more prospects.


Note to all pitchers DON"T win a Cy Young if you want to stay in Cleveland

 

[buckeyemania11]

watch Ben Francisco go to Philly and hit like .300

you know its bound to happen

 

[OH10]

Note to all pitchers DON"T win a Cy Young if you want to stay in Cleveland

That may actually motivate Jeremy Sowers to be effective beyond the 5th inning.


Seriously though, fuck this team and fuck Major League Baseball. Without a salary cap, this shit is just going to keep happening. Might as well contract a few teams - you know, like all of the teams outside of Boston, NY, LA, and Chicago.

 

[NFBuck]

I would have agreed with this assessment had Cliff not come back strong again this year. He's the reigning Cy Young winner; his ERA is under 3.20 this year, making him again one of the top pitchers in the AL; and he has one year left on a favorable deal.

For the Tribe not to be able to pick up even one of the Phillies' top 3 prospects in return is indefensible... especially when you consider that this team underachieved this year AND there is no reason to think that they couldn't turn it around next year with new management in place.

They didn't need to make this trade. It was a luxury we could afford for the right price and we got the wrong [censored]ing price. Shapiro got hosed.

EDIT: I think some of you are just happy to make any kind of deal here. We basically got a couple of turds and some straggling dingleberries in this trade for one of the top lefties in the game. More people should be [censored]ed about that - and the fact that there is any sentiment of satisfaction says a ton about the expectations for this franchise - which is to say there are none.

I'm not happy about just making "any kind of deal". It's a step in the direction this team needs to go. Lee is great on a competitive team, but a competitive team this is not...and sorry, they're not close. They need a lot to go right next year (besides replacing the baboon in the dugout) to hope to be competitive. The starting pitching is in shambles (even with Cliff) and the bullpen is a trainwreck. Add on top of that the apparent financial woes that have led them to change their tune about Lee and V-Mart and it doesn't appear likely much help was on the way via FA.

The market for prospects isn't like it used to be...that's just the way it is. However, Carrasco and Knapp are highly touted and Donald and Marson are a notch below them. Like it or not, this is the same route they took in the late 80's and again in the early part of this decade...trading away established stars, stocking the farm system and building from within. It's the smart way for a team like the Tribe to do business and really the only way to compete. I know some of you don't feel that way, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

What if they keep Cliff and he comes back to earth next season (he's shown flashes of that this year, not to mention flashes of being a malcontent...not that he's wrong there)? What are the chances Fausto comes back to be a viable #2? What are the chances Westbrook can be a legit #3 after 18 months out of the league? What are the chances any of Huff, Laffey, Sowers, etc., etc. etc. can be capable bottom of the rotation guys? What are the chances this absolute disaster of a bullpen can do a complete 180 and become compitent??? Look at the talent there...not real good. Most of those are longshots and almost all of them are needed for this team to have a prayer. You're just putting off a needed rebuild on the very small chance this team can compete next season.

It taken them since 2002 to build a pretty good core group of players. Just like it took them from 1996?- 2002 to build that team. I just get sick of watching teams build from the ground up only to be forced to let the guys they developed go to a major market team. It's ruined baseball fand for that matter, all Pro sports for me.

From 2002 it only took a few years. They started to see returns as early as '04, just missed a potential playoff run in '05 and were one game from a WS win (they would've gorilla fisted the Rockies) in '07. It didn't take as long as you think. If they had a manager with an above room temperature IQ, those -04-'07 teams may have payed off a lot higher.