OH10;1506840; said:
I would have agreed with this assessment had Cliff not come back strong again this year. He's the reigning Cy Young winner; his ERA is under 3.20 this year, making him again one of the top pitchers in the AL; and he has one year left on a favorable deal.
For the Tribe not to be able to pick up even one of the Phillies' top 3 prospects in return is indefensible... especially when you consider that this team underachieved this year AND there is no reason to think that they couldn't turn it around next year with new management in place.
They didn't need to make this trade. It was a luxury we could afford for the right price and we got the wrong [censored]ing price. Shapiro got hosed.
EDIT: I think some of you are just happy to make any kind of deal here. We basically got a couple of turds and some straggling dingleberries in this trade for one of the top lefties in the game. More people should be [censored]ed about that - and the fact that there is any sentiment of satisfaction says a ton about the expectations for this franchise - which is to say there are none.
I'm not happy about just making "any kind of deal". It's a step in the direction this team needs to go. Lee is great on a competitive team, but a competitive team this is not...and sorry, they're not close. They need
a lot to go right next year (besides replacing the baboon in the dugout) to hope to be competitive. The starting pitching is in shambles (even with Cliff) and the bullpen is a trainwreck. Add on top of that the apparent financial woes that have led them to change their tune about Lee and V-Mart and it doesn't appear likely much help was on the way via FA.
The market for prospects isn't like it used to be...that's just the way it is. However, Carrasco and Knapp are highly touted and Donald and Marson are a notch below them. Like it or not, this is the same route they took in the late 80's and again in the early part of this decade...trading away established stars, stocking the farm system and building from within. It's the smart way for a team like the Tribe to do business and really the only way to compete. I know some of you don't feel that way, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
What if they keep Cliff and he comes back to earth next season (he's shown flashes of that this year, not to mention flashes of being a malcontent...not that he's wrong there)? What are the chances Fausto comes back to be a viable #2? What are the chances Westbrook can be a legit #3 after 18 months out of the league? What are the chances any of Huff, Laffey, Sowers, etc., etc. etc. can be capable bottom of the rotation guys? What are the chances this absolute disaster of a bullpen can do a complete 180 and become compitent??? Look at the talent there...not real good. Most of those are longshots and almost all of them are needed for this team to have a prayer. You're just putting off a needed rebuild on the very small chance this team can compete next season.
Basebuck;1506862; said:
It taken them since 2002 to build a pretty good core group of players. Just like it took them from 1996?- 2002 to build that team. I just get sick of watching teams build from the ground up only to be forced to let the guys they developed go to a major market team. It's ruined baseball fand for that matter, all Pro sports for me.
From 2002 it only took a few years. They started to see returns as early as '04, just missed a potential playoff run in '05 and were one game from a WS win (they would've gorilla fisted the Rockies) in '07. It didn't take as long as you think. If they had a manager with an above room temperature IQ, those -04-'07 teams may have payed off a lot higher.
watch Ben Francisco go to Philly and hit like .300