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I am not all in

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BUCKYLE;1923180; said:
And there it is. This, to me, is really the argument between the all in/ not all in. Everything I've learned about James Patrick Tressel over the last ten years tells me that he's not immune to mistakes. It also tells me that his intentions could not have been "I'm not gonna get caught, and I needs me some trophies!!" It just doesn't add up. I understand why people are saying I'm naive, and I'm not mad at them. I just can't believe that the same dude that still helped Louis Irizarry get into college after [censored]ing him over at tOSU...the same man that reached out to MoC after he basically spat in his face...the same dude that has had everyone from former players to people that most would consider not worth his time say nothing but great things about him...was faking it all along. I'm not saying JT is a saint. I'm not even saying he didn't [censored] up. I just believe...not because I want to...but because it's what I have to...that his motivation was above winning at all costs. If any coach in tOSU history could afford a [Mark May]ty season, it was JT.
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Why do his intentions have to be limited to only good...or only bad? A rational explanation is that he thought it a bull[Mark May] rule, did not want to mess up their careers over something that silly, thought he could handle punishment himself in-house, and did not mind not losing his stars for the MNC run 2010 season. There's no requirement he be revealed as immoral or fake just because he made a horrible decision...or even because he selfishly wanted them on the field for 2010 as a side reason.
BUCKYLE;1923180; said:
I mean, what's the worst that could have happened had they been suspended last year? Bring them all back as seniors with a favorable schedule for yet another run at the MNC?
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He could not be sure they'd come back.
BUCKYLE;1923180; said:
Sorry for the long winded post. Just kinda thinkin' out loud.
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I sorry, you lost me here. :p
 
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Gatorubet;1923195; said:
Why do his intentions have to be limited to only good...or only bad? A rational explanation is that he thought it a bull[Mark May] rule, did not want to mess up their careers over something that silly, thought he could handle punishment himself in-house, and did not mind not losing his stars for the MNC run 2010 season. There's no requirement he be revealed as immoral or fake just because he made a horrible decision...or even because he selfishly wanted them on the field for 2010 as a side reason.

He could not be sure they'd come back.

I sorry, you lost me here. :p
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Because everything I've learned about JT tells me he doesn't look at a NCAA rule and think "it's a bullshit rule". Because MoC got suspended for his soph year after being a major reason tOSU won the damn thing. Because JT knows that you don't handle NCAA violations "in house", considering the NCAA had already been on campus for a grip and didn't find any other instances of him handling NCAA violations (minor or otherwise) "in house".

He couldn't be sure they would come back. That's true, of course. It's also not like if he planned on coaching out his current deal he wouldn't have comparable talent and at least one more year of this type of schedule.

I think I lost you when I didn't say "Fuck Gator"?

Sometimes I'm not great at expressing thoughts in written form. I'm much better at expressing myself verbally. I'm sure some of my posts, especially in this thread, which I'm passionate about, come across as...not well thought out...and I'm sure that's true. :lol:
 
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Whether or not his intentions were honorable (in that he truly thought he was helping his players) or self serving (can't win without them in there) the fact that I can't get away from is that he flat out lied. To everyone. He lied to the commisioner of the Big 10 and he lied to the NCAA when he signed off on everyones eligibility.

I can't shake that one.
 
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ysubuck;1923213; said:
Whether or not his intentions were honorable (in that he truly thought he was helping his players) or self serving (can't win without them in there) the fact that I can't get away from is that he flat out lied. To everyone. He lied to the commisioner of the Big 10 and he lied to the NCAA when he signed off on everyones eligibility.

I can't shake that one.
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Let the person who has never lied cast the first stone then.
 
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Buckeye86;1923216; said:
Let the person who has never lied cast the first stone then.
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And yet somehow we live in a society bound by codes. JT violated a professional code as written by the NCAA/member schools and voluntarily entered a profession in which he is bound to adhere to the code unless he wants to incur a penalty.
 
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Buckeye86;1923216; said:
Let the person who has never lied cast the first stone then.
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So JT lying is OK because someone else did it? I don't think that's the standard that the vast majority of OSU fans want our representatives held to, regardless of the motivations behind it.
 
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BUCKYLE;1923180; said:
And there it is. This, to me, is really the argument between the all in/ not all in. Everything I've learned about James Patrick Tressel over the last ten years tells me that he's not immune to mistakes. It also tells me that his intentions could not have been "I'm not gonna get caught, and I needs me some trophies!!" It just doesn't add up. I understand why people are saying I'm naive, and I'm not mad at them. I just can't believe that the same dude that still helped Louis Irizarry get into college after fucking him over at tOSU...the same man that reached out to MoC after he basically spat in his face...the same dude that has had everyone from former players to people that most would consider not worth his time say nothing but great things about him...was faking it all along. I'm not saying JT is a saint. I'm not even saying he didn't fuck up. I just believe...not because I want to...but because it's what I have to...that his motivation was above winning at all costs. If any coach in tOSU history could afford a shitty season, it was JT. I mean, what's the worst that could have happened had they been suspended last year? Bring them all back as seniors with a favorable schedule for yet another run at the MNC?

Sorry for the long winded post. Just kinda thinkin' out loud. Maybe this isn't the thread for it, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up (for once :p)...just a feeling and train of thought I can't shake.
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Just for clarification I think Tressel is a good man, no one is perfect. I don't think he could keep being a complete fraud hidden from so many people for so long. I do however think the motivation to keep kids eligible was higher on his list than other people do but that's one no one is ever going to know for sure.

Also, I think the "other stuff" that probably will surface out of this is the same kind of "other stuff" that goes on at any big school and the kind of shit that only comes up if you give someone a reason to look.

"I'm not all in" means I don't think Tressel, or anyone else, is as good as he was made out to be and that I damn sure don't buy some of the stuff people were cooking up to try and rationalize this all away but if my son were old/good enough to play for Tressel there is no other major CFB coach I would rather have him play for.

Anytime I've gotten over the top its more out of my strong distaste for what I perceive as groupthink/rationalization/hero worship/willful blindness type of stuff.

I know its getting too heavy for a sports forum, no one was passing out the Koolaid, but as a kid of the 70's my family was HUGE on never letting yourself get caught up in a Jonestown kind of thing and its made me be overly sensitive to any kind of organized religion or scenario where people say "I support X no matter what". It's usually not person X that scares me, its people willing to buy anything X is selling, I just find that enormously uncomfortable-even in a setting as ultimately meaningless as CFB.

Anyway, my .02 and attempt at extending the olive branch to anyone I've gotten pissy with. I'm not going back on anything I've said but I just want to let people know why. My name is Jaxbuck and I have been sober for 2 da....err I have a severe cult of personality phobia. Hopefully I don't end up hugging some dude with a set of bitch tits now.
 
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Jaxbuck;1923434; said:
Hopefully I don't end up hugging some dude with a set of bitch tits now.
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fight_club1.jpg
 
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Bucklion;1923422; said:
So JT lying is OK because someone else did it? I don't think that's the standard that the vast majority of OSU fans want our representatives held to, regardless of the motivations behind it.
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Obviously no.

However, in my opinion, firing Coach Tressel and hiring someone that better represents The Ohio State University would be impossible.
 
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