Holbrook to Retire (Merged)

[BuckeyeRyn]

As an alumnus of UC and somebody who will be applying to OSU to earn my masters and PhD, I am terrified at what I have heard around Clifton today....The possibility of NAny ZImpher becoming the next president of THE Ohio State University...If you guys thought K-HO was anti athletics and a p.r. nightmare for the school...wait till you get a load of NAZI and her wardrobe of assorted feather boas, fishnet stockings, bright red lipstick and her sheer hatred for any coach that thinks their program is more important than her school. God help OSU if this comes true.

the hell you say.... sounds like she best stay under the rock where she currently dwells, we have less than no desire for the sounds of that here.

 

[BayBuck]

I hate to step on hallowed ground here, but what exactly did Gee do that was so fantastic? Yes, he was personable, and yes, he would "talk to" students...but can someone fill me in on exactly what actions he took to make the student experience tangibly better? I got to OSU around the end of his tenure, and quite frankly, a lot of things were a mess then...that still are. It seems to me his personality and willingness to chat up students is what garnered him his reputation...not his actions...am I wrong?

http://www.cincypost.com/news/1997/gee062897.html

http://www.brownalumnimagazine.com/storydetail.cfm?ID=1113
Gee's popularity at Ohio State is even more remarkable for coming at a time of diminishing public resources. When the state cut funding for higher education, Gee responded by cutting unpopular academic programs and combining others. Heads rolled; when he ended - temporarily, it turned out - Ohio State's $15 million investment in an observatory on Arizona's Mount Graham, the chairman of the astronomy department resigned. Gee raised academic standards at the school, which has 55,000 students, and began an $850 million fund-raising campaign. Long known as a football powerhouse, Ohio State was soon gaining commensurate respect for its academic programs.

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/1996-97/96-150c.html
When he arrived at Ohio State in 1990, the university was facing a significant cut in state funding. Under his guidance, Ohio State reorganized and simplified its structure, adopted strict fiscal discipline and ranked its priorities, emerging as a stronger institution. Gee currently leads a five-year campaign to raise $850 million for scholarships to recruit top-level students, reward faculty for exceptional work and sustain a talented administrative group.
Ohioans know Gee as charismatic and approachable. His trademark bow tie and horn-rimmed glasses contribute to an appearance that has made him instantly recognizable and accessible on campus and across the state.
An outspoken and tireless advocate for higher education, Gee chairs the Kellogg Commission on the Future of State and Land-Grant Universities and Land-Grant Colleges.

http://www.ohiostatepress.org/index.htm?books/book%20pages/baroway%20gee.html
By 1996, he was so popular, private polls said he could run for Ohio governor; and win—on either ticket.

And according to his Wikipedia page, "Gee has held more university presidencies than any other American." And he did leave here for Brown--note that nobody's snagging Holbrook away from us.

 

[Bucklion]

Interesting. Reading those articles...again, lots of generalities (OSU's "academic standards" were improved...whatever that means) and a whole lot about what a nice guy he was, and how he was willing to talk to students. I'm not knocking the guy, it just seems like he was basically nominated for sainthood, and yet no specifics are ever mentioned as to his accomplishments...kind of like a good politician, I guess. I have nothing against him...just wondering.

 

[tibor75]

If the school was so mediocre than why did you go there?

because it was free.

 

[tibor75]

Interesting. Reading those articles...again, lots of generalities (OSU's "academic standards" were improved...whatever that means) and a whole lot about what a nice guy he was, and how he was willing to talk to students. I'm not knocking the guy, it just seems like he was basically nominated for sainthood, and yet no specifics are ever mentioned as to his accomplishments...kind of like a good politician, I guess. I have nothing against him...just wondering.

Gee showed up at a keg party me and my roommates threw, but other than that, I don't remember anything useful he did.

 

[BayBuck]

Interesting. Reading those articles...again, lots of generalities (OSU's "academic standards" were improved...whatever that means) and a whole lot about what a nice guy he was, and how he was willing to talk to students. I'm not knocking the guy, it just seems like he was basically nominated for sainthood, and yet no specifics are ever mentioned as to his accomplishments...kind of like a good politician, I guess. I have nothing against him...just wondering.

That's a good analogy, because I think the President of a major university like OSU is indeed a politician: Gee was all personality, which makes for a good public face of the university, while Holbrook is all bureaucrat.

 

[Honor&Glory]

the hell you say.... sounds like she best stay under the rock where she currently dwells, we have less than no desire for the sounds of that here.

I agree. But a few things have to be taken into consideration here...

1) She is academically driven and has raised the admission and degree requirements at UC since she's been here.

2) She has overseen the completion of the Main Street construction and development on campus, which included the upgraded, state of the art student union.

3) She has ties to OSU as I believe her first administrative job was at OSU before she left to become president of Millwaukee-Wisconsin.

4) She openly attempted to turn UC into one of the largest research institutions she could by constantly siting OSU as an example.

Look, I'm a diehard OSU fan...but fans don't make administrative decisions....if the board of trustees thinks she is the woman to lead OSU into the future, she will get the job. Academics and construction come first and she has a solid resume given what she has accomplished at UC...she just won't stand for egos like Bob Thuggins to be bigger than hers.

I hope it doesn't happen...but to say there is no chance of it happening is absurd.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

And according to his Wikipedia page, "Gee has held more university presidencies than any other American." And he did leave here for Brown--note that nobody's snagging Holbrook away from us.

Let's not forget all of the university presidencies that Gee turned down to stay at Ohio State--including UNC and Cal. The man had some loyalty and only left when the Ivy League came calling.

Anyway I know who the next president will be.

Whoever Les Wexner and John Ong want it to be.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Interesting. Reading those articles...again, lots of generalities (OSU's "academic standards" were improved...whatever that means) and a whole lot about what a nice guy he was, and how he was willing to talk to students. I'm not knocking the guy, it just seems like he was basically nominated for sainthood, and yet no specifics are ever mentioned as to his accomplishments...kind of like a good politician, I guess. I have nothing against him...just wondering.

Campus Gateway is one of Gee's initiatives. Also all of the stuff that had been initiated under Jennings, was still not on completely firm ground when Gee came in. It was a lot harder for Gee to continue these policies and fight those that wanted to take Ohio State back to the 1970's. When he was done, it is virtually impossible for any future governor to dumb down Ohio State again (although Lord knows Blackwell will try).

IMHO, next to William Oxley Thompson, Jennings is probably the greatest president the university ever had. All of the praise and benefits that Ohio State is recieving now, including high admissions standards, massive research funding, dozens of National Academies members on the faculty, grow out of Ed Jennings initiatives.

 

[cincibuck]

Ohio State is the flagship university of the state, and the state's only real national research university..

Research isn't done at the undergrad level... and research means professors who don't dirty their hands by working with undergrads or actually teach.

Every C+ student in the state does not have some inalienable right to come to Ohio State.

Why not? Didn't their parents pay taxes? Further, the university doesn't refuse all C students. If they can run with the football or slamdunk the basketball, skills which have absolutely nothing to do with academics, they'll still get in. I honestly believe that a good deal of resentment gets generated when exclusive schools find openings for underachievers who are athletes or put on campus for diversity. When enrollment is open everyone who passed from an accredited high school is entitled to try his/her hand at the flagship school..

.

Also, when funding is so ridiculously low, why should Ohio State have to devote resources for the inevitable remedial programs to attempt to bring these kids up to speed, knowing full well that the vast majority of them will never graduate..

They don't. They chose to do that. In the 1960s we had math 400 (aka bonehead math) and English 400 and that was it

.

1) The remedial issue. Why is the state of Ohio paying for remedial education at its flagship campus, when they are already funding it at the community colleges..

So you drop open enrollment over one easily solved issue? Just don't offer remediation to anyone except football and basketball players. That should be in the sarcasm font but I can't find the button.

The correct question should be why are we offering remediation courses at ANY college. The problem needs to be addressed at the high school and elementary level.

.

2) Brain Drain. Seeing as Rhodes was in office for so long, Ohio State had twenty years of data showing that high ability high school graduates increasingly left the state during this period..

Gee, you think everyone at Michigan finds work in Michigan... or Wisconsin, or Pennsylvania... there's been a brain drain because of the lack of economic opportunity in the Midwest

3) Faculty Recruitment. Ohio State had an increasingly hard time competing against other B10 schools for new facutly because of open admissions..

People don't go to certain schools because they want to lock themselves up in a lab and they don't want to teach. If we're not getting those kinds of professors it's because Bechtel and the Uinversity and the State and the State's industries are not attracting them.

4) It hurt the dumbasses themselves. Marginal students that came to Ohio State under open admissions were far less likely to ever complete an undergraduate degree than similar students that went to less demanding campuses.

Easy bruiser. I was a dumbass and it took me six years to make it out of OSU, but I made it. I teach at Miami and I hate the thought of the OSU campus becoming the next home for those who couldn't get into Harvard, Duke or Northwestern like the kids I work with at Oxford.

 

[tibor75]

Research isn't done at the undergrad level... and research means professors who don't dirty their hands by working with undergrads or actually teach.

Why not? Didn't their parents pay taxes? Further, the university doesn't refuse all C students..

Uh, sure. If you're a C high school student have no special skill, you don't deserve a spot in OSU's class. Who gives a fuck if their parents paid taxes? Nowhere on the tax form does it say, "This will guarentee an education at any Ohio university"

If you're a stupid high school student, that's your own lazy ass fault.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Uh, sure. If you're a C high school student have no special skill, you don't deserve a spot in OSU's class. Who gives a fuck if their parents paid taxes? Nowhere on the tax form does it say, "This will guarentee an education at any Ohio university"

If you're a stupid high school student, that's your own lazy ass fault.

Well put, Tibor! Ohio State University is a research university. This was decided over 100 years ago! If somebody doesn't want to attend a research university, there are 12--count them TWELVE--other public, four-year universities for them to attend. Why should we undo a hundred years of history and dumb down the state's flagship university for the benefit of the mediocrities!

Now, that doesn't mean that Ohio State shouldn't devote the effort, passion and resources into making the undergraduate experience at Ohio State the best that it can be. This is clearly one area where Holbrook fell short.

As to becoming like Fredo(OH), that is the last thing that I want to see Ohio State become--a self-satisfied, overgrown boarding school for rich kids that were rejected by their top 3 or 4 college choices. And, I don't think we're moving in that direction. A good indication of that is the fact that top 10% kids in Ohio are overwhelmingly choosing Ohio State--our yield is almost 50%. The only reason the Fredo(OH) is keeping pace with us on admissions is the fact that they're desperately trolling the Chicago suburbs for those ND/Michigan rejects.

 

[elliemae]

Ba~Bye! :cheers:

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Why not? Didn't their parents pay taxes? Further, the university doesn't refuse all C students. If they can run with the football or slamdunk the basketball, skills which have absolutely nothing to do with academics, they'll still get in. I honestly believe that a good deal of resentment gets generated when exclusive schools find openings for underachievers who are athletes or put on campus for diversity. When enrollment is open everyone who passed from an accredited high school is entitled to try his/her hand at the flagship school.

Again, you haven't really answered my question as to why space should be made at a state's (any state's) flagship campus for mediocre high school students. Particularly when, as I've stated in other threads, they have numerous other options. Nobody has a "right" to be a Buckeye.

The taxpayer issue just doesn't wash. There's only so many kids that Ohio State can accomodate. Does being a California taxpayer automatically reserve a spot at Berkeley or UCLA for one's kid? Does being a Wisconsin taxpayer automatically reserve a spot in Madison for one's kid? Does being a Virginia taxpayer automatically reserve a spot in Charlottseville for one's kid?

When I lived in Ohio, there was constant talk about attracting third-wave businesses to the state and about the state's well documented brain drain. If Ohio and her citizens are to have the type of flagship research university that makes a difference in these regards, who is going to fill that role? OU? Bowling Green? That overgrown boarding school in Oxford? No, :osu: is, but not if it's dumbed down to mediocrity!

 

[ekeen]

because it was free.

Typical lib.....

He He.