Heat-Mavs 2011 NBA Finals

[matttank]

You proved nothing to be false, believe me. You thinking that all you have to do is count the free throws to conclude that game was fairly officiated is, quite simply, laughable. That's a simple-minded way of viewing things. Timing of calls, how aggressive each team is being, etc. all come into play. By the way, you may want to read through the thread--you should be able to find others claiming that the officiating left a lot to be desired last night.

On a board with a lot of people that hate the Heat and are rooting for the Mavs I will find others trying dismiss the Heat's performances by saying the officiating is helping them win? You don't say? Well I guess all of these unbiased opinions must be right

I agree that just looking at #s doesn't show what calls were good or bad. But saying that one could do nothing but think that the refs were completely screwing over a team when the numbers are so even (and IMO both teams played equally hard and were equally aggressive, and the #s back that up so really only the bad call on Dirk is all you have in your argument, 1 freaking call since it had that certain "timing") is still asinine.

 

[matttank]

In fairness, there were a lot of other bad calls too...I just chose to focus on the 4th quarter. But the LeBron travel was in the second quarter. After Dallas had a nice run in the third, momentum swung on a phantom call on DeShawn Stevenson. Wade made a nice lay-up contorting his body, but there was no contact and Stevenson conceded the lay-up. But Wade got the And-1 due to his loud yelling that officials seem to love so much...

JJ Barea was also hip checked much of the night. I can see awarding him fouls difficult because an average NBA hip-check shouldn't generate so much force but the guy is 5'5. A foul is a foul.

Also, whether they influence the initial shot or not, it a foul for LeBron to continually make contact with the shooters after release. He slapped J-Kidds wrist after a shot, and left his leg under Jason Terry after a 3. Both could of been called, but since they didn't alter the initial shot neither were called.

The LeBron travel just took the cake though...I haven;t seen a more blatant travel in my entire life. Well except for that 6 step travel he had against Chicago that put Miami up 2 under 30 seconds....

And in fairness, that works both ways. If those hip checks by the heat on Barea were fouls (i don't remember them checking him, just showing hard but whatever), then like I said earlier, Wade should have shot about 6 more FT's in the first half when he was bumped in the lane (a huge contributor to his 3-10 first half).

And I distinctly remember one of Terry's corner 3's being wide open because Haywood had bulldozed Bosh just outside the land towards the baseline as he attempted to close out. There are probably more but I honestly am not looking for or trying to remember every single halfway bad call that goes against the Heat, because if the Mavs win the series it will be because they are a better team and the Heat failed, I will freely admit that. There will be no excuses for either team.

 

[TooTall]

And in fairness, that works both ways. If those hip checks by the heat on Barea were fouls (i don't remember them checking him, just showing hard but whatever), then like I said earlier, Wade should have shot about 6 more FT's in the first half when he was bumped in the lane (a huge contributor to his 3-10 first half).

And I distinctly remember one of Terry's corner 3's being wide open because Haywood had bulldozed Bosh just outside the land towards the baseline as he attempted to close out. There are probably more but I honestly am not looking for or trying to remember every single halfway bad call that goes against the Heat, because if the Mavs win the series it will be because they are a better team and the Heat failed, I will freely admit that. There will be no excuses for either team.

It's kind of ironic that you are super defending the Heat, just as much as everyone who hates LeBron is defending the Mavs. Can't you just come to the conclusion that the refs are in way over their head this series, and if we get 3-6 more games of this shit, heads are going to roll?

 

[matttank]

It's kind of ironic that you are super defending the Heat, just as much as everyone who hates LeBron is defending the Mavs. Can't you just come to the conclusion that the refs are in way over their head this series, and if we get 3-6 more games of this [Mark May], heads are going to roll?

They probably are in over their heads. I mean, the Heat have 2 stars who get more calls than they should, and the Mavs have 1 as well. You also have 2 teams that like to flop and attempt to take charges on D. Plus the Cuban factor and the sour taste of the '06 finals. I really don't envy the men in stripes this series, since pretty much every call they make is going to be overly criticized like they have been in this thread haha. But I doubt heads will roll, or guys like Joey Crawford would have been axed years ago (along with a lot of the out-of-shape or too old guys they have).

 

[TooTall]

They probably are in over their heads. I mean, the Heat have 2 stars who get more calls than they should, and the Mavs have 1 as well. You also have 2 teams that like to flop and attempt to take charges on D. Plus the Cuban factor and the sour taste of the '06 finals. I really don't envy the men in stripes this series, since pretty much every call they make is going to be overly criticized like they have been in this thread haha. But I doubt heads will roll, or guys like Joey Crawford would have been axed years ago (along with a lot of the out-of-shape or too old guys they have).

It's the Finals. They've gotta take charge of the situation and not allow this flopping bullshit to continue. Play the game, not the refs.

 

[matttank]

It's the Finals. They've gotta take charge of the situation and not allow this flopping bull[Mark May] to continue. Play the game, not the refs.

You'll get no argument for me there. I hate flopping with a passion. I love Van Gundy's idea of assessing technicals in/post-game for obvious flops.

 

[TooTall]

You'll get no argument for me there. I hate flopping with a passion. I love Van Gundy's idea of assessing technicals in/post-game for obvious flops.

Agreed

 

[buckeyesin07]

On a board with a lot of people that hate the Heat and are rooting for the Mavs I will find others trying dismiss the Heat's performances by saying the officiating is helping them win? You don't say? Well I guess all of these unbiased opinions must be right

That was more to refute your point that I was the only one saying the officiating was poor. You missed my point entirely.

I agree that just looking at #s doesn't show what calls were good or bad.

Oh no? You must have forgotten this statement that you made earlier while patting yourself on the back, in which you claimed that my assertion that the officiating was biased "was utterly proved false by the first sentence in my initial reply." The first sentence in your reply (you know, the one that "utterly proved my assertion false") dealt with--wait for it--the number of fouls called on each team. So my question is--do you backpedal much? You might want to reread your previous posts before posting next time.

so really only the bad call on Dirk is all you have in your argument, 1 freaking call since it had that certain "timing") is still asinine.

The fact that I only referenced one call, when others have described a lot more, means that there only was one bad call in the game, right? It couldn't be that enough bad calls in the Heat's favor have been referenced and that no one has the time to go back through and chronicle each bad call, could it? Great logic.

 

[zwem]

It's the Finals. They've gotta take charge of the situation and not allow this flopping bull[Mark May] to continue. Play the game, not the refs.

I agree. Plus it's the Finals, so the ticky tack fouls don't need to be called. The refs should allow that stuff and only call the hard and obvious fouls. Let the players decide the game. Both teams got away with stuff last night. Lets not pretend this was SAC/LA in game 6 of the 2002 western conference finals.

 

[matttank]

That was more to refute your point that I was the only one saying the officiating was poor. You missed my point entirely.

Hmmm, maybe. It sounded more like a "others agree with me so my point is valid" argument but whatever. I don't think I ever said that you were the only person, but you were the only person saying it with the hyperbole you used.

Oh no? You must have forgotten this statement that you made earlier while patting yourself on the back, in which you claimed that my assertion that the officiating was biased "was utterly proved false by the first sentence in my initial reply." The first sentence in your reply (you know, the one that "utterly proved my assertion false") dealt with--wait for it--the number of fouls called on each team. So my question is--do you backpedal much? You might want to reread your previous posts before posting next time.

I find it funny that someone whose intial post I questioned -which contained neither anecdotal nor statistical evidence to back up the statement (about not being able to conclude anything but a pro-Heat rigged finals) - is so up in arms about me conceding a somewhat lack of substance in my post. The numbers on their own do, IMO, refute that original point you made, only because that point was so over-the-top. If it were so obvious the NBA really wanted to rig the officiating and had done so to the point that there was no arguing it, the numbers wouldn't have been so even (or in a lot of cases, favored the Mavs). My argument, as you wisely pointed out, could have had more substance by taking a look at the context of the fouls though.

The fact that I only referenced one call, when others have described a lot more, means that there only was one bad call in the game, right? It couldn't be that enough bad calls in the Heat's favor have been referenced and that no one has the time to go back through and chronicle each bad call, could it? Great logic.

I never said there was one bad call in the game in the Heat's favor. In fact, I have mentioned that there were 2 indisputable ones, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. You were talking about the context of the fouls though, that I couldn't simply look at the numbers. I then did so, using your criteria of aggressiveness and timing of calls. I said that I thought both teams were equally aggressive, and that the only bad call that came at a critical moment in the game was the Dirk slap. You, on the other hand, have not given your thoughts on the aggressiveness and effort of either team last night and how that contributed to the officiating and foul totals. And quite frankly, at this point I am tired of debating a point I know I am right about, so I don't care.

My original point stands: Saying the only conclusion you can draw from the efforts of the officials last night is that the NBA has the refs rigging the finals is asinine. The real lack of statistical and anecdotal evidence showing a great advantage in illegitimate calls received by the Heat supports this. Both teams had calls (or a lack thereof) go for and against them. Saying you thought the officiating was bad or slightly slanted would not have drawn such a response from me, but that hyperbole did. I will be here during game 2 so we can debate about the officiating (or, hopefully, the actual game) again then. Have a good one.

 

[MObuckeye13]

Heat getting every [censored]ing call

They do in every game

 

[EDDIE GGGG27]

Doesn't feel like the Finals. Maybe it's the empty seats in the front row, though.

What??? Miami has great fans

 

[TDunk]

What??? Miami has great fans

I don't know about fans but...

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

What??? Miami has great fans

agreed.

 

[billmac91]

Should prob go in the LeBron thread but too good to pass up. Boobie Gibson fires back at LeBron for his "die down" comments.

http://thedugoutsportsshow.com/%E2%80%9Cboobie%E2%80%99s-podcast%E2%80%9D-with-cavs-guard-daniel-gibson-%E2%80%93-episode-3

?The way it?s said, you can?t help but take it personal. I would prefer to talk to him personally and say, ?Exactly what did you mean when you said this comment? What point were you trying to make???I take comments like that and when you speak out and you feel the need for everybody to hear what you are saying, it?s kind of like admission. By you saying that, I don?t think great players should feel the need to say this about a team or say that about a team. I think what it all boils down to if you?re great, you go play great, be great and everybody will realize you?re great. And you wouldn?t have to let it be known that everybody else was less great. Great players shouldn?t have to do that. So I feel like it?s kind of an admission. He might have needed some help. He might have needed to go somewhere and find someone who is a little greater so maybe he wouldn?t die down in those moments.?

?I didnt see anything different happen behind the scenes. There wasn?t an altercation in the locker room. And all the speculation about his mom (Gloria James) and my teammate (Delonte West), I think that is just bull. I don?t think anybody should ever say anything like that. Disrespectful to his mother. On the flip side of all that, once again, in the situation like that, we got beat. So, I feel like a great player would do or what a player whose deteremind to be that would just say okay we got beat, I gotta do better. Simple as that. Everybody on the team should take accountability for what happened and figure it out and move forward. It?s not about pointing a finger that way, pointing a finger that way, the finger should always be pointed at yourself, what could I have done better.?