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Game Thread Game Two: Texas 25, Ohio State 22 (final)

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why wouldnt you spy vince young? the very least it would do is slow him down by making him make more moves and jukes, thus giving our defense more time to swarm to him, by spy i dont mean blitz i mean keep one of our backers across from him on our side of scrimmage and sticking with him sideline to sideline.
 
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SNG77: because it puts everyone on the Defense in One on One situations... as soon as VY completes a pass, the reciever only needs to beat one guy before gaining big yardage... no to mention when VY hands the ball off, and the reaction time of the spy is extended... nope... spying is a bad idea... scUM tried it, and they gave up 191 rushing yards to him... the key isn't to try to stop him behind the line of scrimmage, it's trying to keep him from taking off and running... once he gets past the spy, he's on his own, which leads to big gains... CONTAIN him, and force him to put the ball in the air...
 
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Turnovers are huge and is one of the pillars of TresselBall.

Also, 2 things need to click in order for our defensive scheme to work: containing VY (not easy) and forcing him to throw, and utilizing the skill at DB to shut down the (arguably inexperienced) Longhorn receivers. Overlooking Texas' running game would be a mistake...so needless to say our D will have their hands full on the 10th.

Offensively I don't think our running game has a chance, so we'll have to use the spread, shot-ginn, and other random goodies (in The Game, Smith to Hamby on that cross route where Hamby fell at the line, got open, and caught the pass for a huge gain). Having Ginn, Holmes, and Gonzales would force one of them to draw the double coverage, in which case you'd have to trust Smith to make the right decision. I think Ginn will be used as a decoy 80% of the time.
 
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scarletngrey77 said:
a spy could help w/ containing VY, when hes about to take off and run he just has to look across from him and see one of our backers following his every move, not behind the line of scrimmage but across from it
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Following him around isn't containing him. I don't think spying him is a good idea either. It basically just takes one guy and makes him useless on most plays because he's busy watching a guy waiting to react instead of blitzing or dropping back in coverage or any number of more useful things he could be doing. Playing assignment sound defense and not missing tackles would be a better idea.
 
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Regarding Spys...

"The modern NFL quarterback, equally adept at passing and running, has made the spy defense a necessary evil. For a defensive coordinator today, the spy defense is like paying taxes or going to the dentist: Everyone does it, but no one really wants to."
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If it works in the NFL, I'll take my chances against Mack Brown's club.

And some more quotes:
"The most demoralizing thing for a defense is when you have a team stopped in coverage, and the quarterback scrambles for a first down," Campo says.

So simply playing good defense against a mobile quarterback isn't enough. That's where the spy comes in.

The Bears often utilized a spy, sometimes middle linebacker Brian Urlacher, against a host of fleet quarterbacks en route to a division title in 2001. The Redskins neutralized McNabb in a 13-3 victory over the Eagles in week 11 by deploying linebacker LaVar Arrington. The Patriots annually shadowed Flutie, first in Buffalo and later in San Diego.

"[Patriots coach Bill] Belichick usually likes to get a spy guy on me and put him in the middle," Flutie says.

Flutie knows it's coming, not only against the Patriots, but at some point in the game against most opponents. So while it's called the spy, the defense hardly is covert.
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I don't think you spy VY every down, but I do think you gotta mix some in to make him think about it.
"When you put a spy on those guys, the first thing you've got to say as a coach is, 'Can he get him?'" Belichick says. "There's no point in just spying with somebody who can't get him, who's not athletic enough or fast enough to track him down."

""When teams spy the quarterback, that's one less guy I have to read," Stewart says.

"If they're lining up one guy just to spy you, that's hurting their coverage," Brunell says. "It hurts their ability to defend the pass, and you have time to go through your progression."

"
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What is VY's weakness again? Oh, yeah, passing. I say taking the hit in coverage is worth it.

21 - correct me if I'm wrong, but "contain" is something DE's do.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
LV - Michigan didn't have a Hawk, Schlegal or Carpenter... let alone a D'Andrea and/or Freeman. I do agree that Contain is key, though.
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that is most certainly true... scUM's LBers aren't any where near as good at the Silver Bullets... it's not even the same ballgame... but even though our D in exponentially better than scUM's, employing their Mickey Mouse Defensive strategies is asking for trouble...

that reminds me of a joke:
so this guy gets a letter in the mail announcing that he is the sole heir of an incredible fortune... so the guy calls his three sons and tells them about the huge sum of money and states that he will grant one wish to each of his sons in celebration... so the first son is a huge car buff, and he says that he's always wanted a Ferrari, so the Father goes and buys him seven Ferraris, one for each day of the week... the second son loves motorcycles, and says he's always wanted a Harley. so the guy goes and buys his son 30 motorcycles, one for each day of the month... finally the youngest son makes his request... now, he's pretty young, and he says that all he wants is a Mickey Mouse Outfit... so the guy goes out and buys his son the University of Meatchicken...

hope you liked it...
 
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"employing their Mickey Mouse Defensive strategies is asking for trouble..."


Michigan didn't come up with the idea.

Some variation of the spy has been around as long as teams have been playing football. In the twenties and thirties, all eyes on defense turned to Jim Thorpe, Red Grange, and Bronko Nagurski. It's only natural that the most accomplished player on offense would draw the most attention on defense. But when Giants coach Steve Owen originated the Umbrella Defense in 1950 to combat the Browns' formidable offense, he utilized his middle linebacker as a full-time spy.
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Nice joke though :biggrin:
 
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i wasn't trying to say that scUM invented the spy... all i was saying was that judging from the way he torched them, i don't think it would be a good idea...

anyway. here's another one:
so three guys are walking to the football game. an Ohio State fan, a Penn State fan, and a scUMmer... so they see this lady lying naked in the bushes, dead drunk... well, they get on the phone and call the cops... out of respect, the Buckeye places his ballcap over the lady's right breast... the Nitany Lion follows suit and places his cap over the left breast... not wanting to be out- done, the scUM fan places his cap over her bush... well, the cop shows up and starts asking questions and taking notes. he looks under the Ohio State hat, and writes some notes. then he does the same with the Penn State hat... finally he looks under the scUM hat... he scratches his head, obviously confused, then looks under the hat again... then he looks again... at this point the scUMmer is getting pissed. "hey, what's the big idea? are you some kind of pervert?" he asks. "No," says the cop. "it's just that when i look under a scUM hat, all i usually see is an asshole."

:biggrin:
 
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My problem with spying is that if the QB happens not to run with the ball, it's a total waste of a person on defense. So here's my hybrid solution. If you want to spy Vince Young, blitz the hell out of him, force him to leave the pocket and then have your "spy" chase him down. In other words, make him run instead of sitting and waiting on him to run.

A (somewhat) perfect example of this would be the very first play of the second half in the M*ch*gan game. Everett and Schelgel blitzed up the middle, both were blocked (Everett got pretty well blown up) but those two took up two blockers. Meanwhile, A.J. Hawk moved over to the middle of the field and spied on the play. He was left totally untouched to chase down Hart who had to bounce the play outside because of the blitz up the middle.

The obvious difference is that this was a run play and spying Vince Young would most likely involve a pass play but I think the same principle applies. Blitz with a couple guys and force Vince Young to move around in the pocket, then have Hawk or whoever "spy" him and react as Vince avoids the rush and runs.

Like I said before, I really don't like the idea of spying Vince Young and hoping that he will run, otherwise it would be a waste of a person on defense. But if you design the play to try and force Vince to run by blitzing him then spying him would be a great idea.

Of course spying with a man and blitzing with a few other guys takes a large chunk of the defense away from pass coverage, even though quite a few people around here don't respect Vince's passing abillity so that should be a risk most people would be willing to take.

Then of course if Vince does start burning us with his passing we would adjust accordingly.

If someone could hook me up with that clip I was talking about that would be great. It's the very first play of the second half after the kick off of the M*ch*gan game.

Whatcha think?
 
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Buckeye86 said:
My problem with spying is that if the QB happens not to run with the ball, it's a total waste of a person on defense. So here's my hybrid solution. If you want to spy Vince Young, blitz the hell out of him, force him to leave the pocket and then have your "spy" chase him down. In other words, make him run instead of sitting and waiting on him to run.

A (somewhat) perfect example of this would be the very first play of the second half in the M*ch*gan game. Everett and Schelgel blitzed up the middle, both were blocked (Everett got pretty well blown up) but those two took up two blockers. Meanwhile, A.J. Hawk moved over to the middle of the field and spied on the play. He was left totally untouched to chase down Hart who had to bounce the play outside because of the blitz up the middle.

The obvious difference is that this was a run play and spying Vince Young would most likely involve a pass play but I think the same principle applies. Blitz with a couple guys and force Vince Young to move around in the pocket, then have Hawk or whoever "spy" him and react as Vince avoids the rush and runs.

Like I said before, I really don't like the idea of spying Vince Young and hoping that he will run, otherwise it would be a waste of a person on defense. But if you design the play to try and force Vince to run by blitzing him then spying him would be a great idea.

Of course spying with a man and blitzing with a few other guys takes a large chunk of the defense away from pass coverage, even though quite a few people around here don't respect Vince's passing abillity so that should be a risk most people would be willing to take.

Then of course if Vince does start burning us with his passing we would adjust accordingly.

If someone could hook me up with that clip I was talking about that would be great. It's the very first play of the second half after the kick off of the M*ch*gan game.

Whatcha think?
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the idea of the 'hybrid spy' is intruiging to say the least... no matter what, the key is to keep him in the pocket and force him to either put the ball in the air or take a sack... after all, "when you pass the ball only three things can happen, and two of 'em ain't good."
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
...ANd why would you rotate your O-Line?
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We'll be facing arguably the premier, as well as maybe the deepest, DL in the entire country. We'll definitely need to keep fresh OL in. Maybe not rotate the line on a continual basis, but substitute liberally.
 
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