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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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Looks like Skull Session and the Varsity Club are making a little appearance down in Austin

How many schools have their 16,000 seat arena rented out to the visiting team's local alumni club? Another reason OSU has the best fan base around.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
Okay, I examined it closer. Mack Brown was hired in '97. Since then he has basically coached three QB's: Applewhite, Sims, and Young. The rotating QB system between Applewhite and Sims was obviously a big fiasco, and then there was Vince Young. The question isn't who else has been a disapointment because there is no one else. So I think I'm justified in saying that Mack Brown doesn't have a very good track record developing QB's, no?

I think the ball is in your court to prove (or in Mack Brown's court to prove) that he can develope a QB, especailly a QB that isn't a once in a generation phenom like Vince Young was. Add to that the possibility that he might have to deal with rotating QB's again (which he hasn't had much success with in the past) and the situation gets even more complicated.
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bottom line is that the last time Mack had a decision to make at QB (Simms or Applewhite) he botched it badly. Vince was a no-brainer and he even managed to foul Vince up, finally admitting that they were going to "get out of Vince's way" his senior season. that doesn't look to me like a strong record of developing and utilizing QBs.

if I'm a Horn fan I'd be praying McCoy looks awesome against UNT next Saturday night and even better against tOSU the next week. if he doesn't, Mack will face questions about who to play and the whole thing could get very tough. Mack's a couple of bad plays away from a QB controversy - with a Buckeye defense coming to town to help fan those flames....
 
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DallasBuckeye said:
bottom line is that the last time Mack had a decision to make at QB (Simms or Applewhite) he botched it badly. Vince was a no-brainer and he even managed to foul Vince up, finally admitting that they were going to "get out of Vince's way" his senior season. that doesn't look to me like a strong record of developing and utilizing QBs.
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Shows how much you know. Vince's senior season would be next year! What more would you like from Mack Brown? Simms is the starter for Tampa Bay and Vince was just recently drafted as the 3rd pick overall after his junior season in the NFL draft. If he had come back for his senior season...who knows what would have happened. Please keep in mind that Chris Simms was a recruit the caliber of Jimmy Clausen. A coach can only feel pressure for putting the younger, more talented guy in.
 
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TheMightyQuinn said:
I got the impression that Chris Simm's got the starting job because of his name and that turned out to be a mistake. Your saying that to this day there are just as many Simm fans as Applewhite fans?
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Here's one aspect of the debate, Simms had all the tools (height-arm-pedigre), looked like Unitas, Stauback, Montana, ect.. every day in practice and against patsies, would rack up obscene numbers. But come the BIG GAME, when you really needed him to pull some magic out of his hat, he would fall flat. To be far, he wasn't alway helped out by his recievers (drops of perfectly thrown balls) or his line (not always that good) or his coaches (some pretty unimaginative play calling).

Major would look very average in practice; was short, slow, weak-armed. Although none of us Texas fans like to remember it, he sometimes looked pretty average against pretty average compitition. To be fair, he was saddled with the same surrounding issues as Chris (playcalling and the like). But what he lacked in physical gifts, he more than made up for in heart and intelligence. He (almost) always seemed to come through when the team needed him to the most. And alot of people swear that he had a habit of calling his own audibles when he knew that the play from above wasn't the right call.

Most fans remember Simms as worse than he really was and Major as better than he really was, so that always clouds the debate. Truth is they were both very good but usually in a completly oppisite kind of way, but neither they, or the team or the coaches were as successful as fans expected them to be.
 
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inVINCEable said:
Shows how much you know. Vince's senior season would be next year! What more would you like from Mack Brown? Simms is the starter for Tampa Bay and Vince was just recently drafted as the 3rd pick overall after his junior season in the NFL draft. If he had come back for his senior season...who knows what would have happened. Please keep in mind that Chris Simms was a recruit the caliber of Jimmy Clausen. A coach can only feel pressure for putting the younger, more talented guy in.
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Fair enough, but don't forget the whole Chris Simms/Major Applewhite ordeal, and lets be honest, Simms was not exactly a world beater with the Horns (ended up a 3rd round pick). VY wasn't on the feld until Mack couldn't deny him over Chance Mock unless I'm mistaken. Bottom line is, Mack has a rather below average record in big games Pre-Vince. Vince ended up being a transcendent talent, and I'm not so sure Colt or Jevan will be that...definately not as Freshmen.
 
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NFBuck said:
Fair enough, but don't forget the whole Chris Simms/Major Applewhite ordeal, and lets be honest, Simms was not exactly a world beater with the Horns (ended up a 3rd round pick). VY wasn't on the feld until Mack couldn't deny him over Chance Mock unless I'm mistaken. Bottom line is, Mack has a rather below average record in big games Pre-Vince. Vince ended up being a transcendent talent, and I'm not so sure Colt or Jevan will be that...definately not as Freshmen.
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We'll just your post under "It was all Vince" category. If I were to be this blind about OSU, I might as well say OSU's 2002 National Championship was "all Maurice Clarett" because really..how many many MNC's has OSU won since he left the program???
 
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bchorn said:
We'll just your post under "It was all Vince" category. If I were to be this blind about OSU, I might as well say OSU's 2002 National Championship was "all Maurice Clarett" because really..how many many MNC's has OSU won since he left the program???
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Well, you won't find a Buckeye that will say we would have gone far that year without MoC, so OK. Honestly, and i have the utmost respect for you guys, but how well did you do in big games under Mack before VY came along? That's all I'm saying....
 
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bchorn said:
We'll just your post under "It was all Vince" category. If I were to be this blind about OSU, I might as well say OSU's 2002 National Championship was "all Maurice Clarett" because really..how many many MNC's has OSU won since he left the program???
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Good comparison, especially when looking at these stats:

Total offense for MoC in 2003 Fiesta Bowl: 47

Total offense for VY in 2006 Rose Bowl: 467
 
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NFBuck said:
Well, you will struggle to find a Buckeye that will say we would have gone far that year without MoC, so OK. Honestly, and i have the utmost respect for you guys, but how well did you do in big games under Mack before VY came along?
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Major Applewhite had 3 wins over top 10 teams.

In 1998 when Major was a redshirt freshman he beat #7 Nebraska and ended the Nebraska's ungodly 48 something game home win streak. Later that year he beat #6 A&M in DKR. This is also the game that Ricky Williams broke Tony Dorsett's rushing record.

In 1999, Major led UT to a victory over #3 Nebraska in DKR.

From 2000-2004 there were a number of Top 20 wins but no Top 10 wins. So, for that period, I would say UT is fair game to be picked on.

There are number of reason why I believe why we didn't win during this time but I'm not going to lay them out here. One of them though is not Mack Brown because, as you can see, he had some big wins before this period.
 
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BB73 said:
Good comparison, especially when looking at these stats:

Total offense for MoC in 2003 Fiesta Bowl: 47

Total offense for VY in 2006 Rose Bowl: 467
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Oh...so you're saying you would have gotten to the Fiesta Bowl that year and won it without Maurice Clarett?

Look I'm just saying that MoC wasn't the only thing that was great about that 2003 team. As great as VY was, I ask the "It was all Vince" crowd to consider how much success VY would have had if he was at Baylor or A&M. Definitely no MNC in that case.
 
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bchorn said:
Major Applewhite had 3 wins over top 10 teams.

In 1998 when Major was a redshirt freshman he beat #7 Nebraska and ended the Nebraska's ungodly 48 something game home win streak. Later that year he beat #6 A&M in DKR. This is also the game that Ricky Williams broke Tony Dorsett's rushing record.
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so, was it really Applewhite, or were the Horns simply riding the NCAA career rushing leader to victory?

In 1999, Major led UT to a victory over #3 Nebraska in DKR.
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okaaaay... how did that Big XII Championship game turn out?

From 2000-2004 there were a number of Top 20 wins but no Top 10 wins. So, for that period, I would say UT is fair game to be picked on.
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before 2005, the last time UT won anything significant was in 1996, when James Brown completed that 4th and 6 pass against Nebraska in the inaugural Big XII Championship game...

There are number of reason why I believe why we didn't win during this time but I'm not going to lay them out here. One of them though is not Mack Brown because, as you can see, he had some big wins before this period.
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you're right. it must have been his HORRIBLE recruiting classes... :roll1:
 
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