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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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bchorn said:
Let's examine this closer. Please name all the UT QBs that were so called under developed under Mack Brown's watch. I bet the only one you can name is Chris Simms.
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Okay, I examined it closer. Mack Brown was hired in '97. Since then he has basically coached three QB's: Applewhite, Sims, and Young. The rotating QB system between Applewhite and Sims was obviously a big fiasco, and then there was Vince Young. The question isn't who else has been a disapointment because there is no one else. So I think I'm justified in saying that Mack Brown doesn't have a very good track record developing QB's, no?

I think the ball is in your court to prove (or in Mack Brown's court to prove) that he can develope a QB, especailly a QB that isn't a once in a generation phenom like Vince Young was. Add to that the possibility that he might have to deal with rotating QB's again (which he hasn't had much success with in the past) and the situation gets even more complicated.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
Okay, I examined it closer. Mack Brown was hired in '97. Since then he has basically coached three QB's: Applewhite, Sims, and Young. The rotating QB system between Applewhite and Sims was obviously a big fiasco, and then there was Vince Young. The question isn't who else has been a disapointment because there is no one else. So I think I'm justified in saying that Mack Brown doesn't have a very good track record developing QB's, no?

I think the ball is in your court to prove (or in Mack Brown's court to prove) that he can develope a QB, especailly a QB that isn't a once in a generation phenom like Vince Young was. Add to that the possibility that he might have to deal with rotating QB's again (which he hasn't had much success with in the past) and the situation gets even more complicated.
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Simms is the only reason why Mack has the reputation that he has right now with QB. If Simms had beaten OU or had been drafted in the first round, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Applewhite was the Big 12 Offensive Freshman of the Year in 1998 and the co-Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year in 1999. Yes, they mishandled the QB rotation in 2000 and then in 2001 just plain out right made Simms the starter over Applewhite. In the 2001 Big 12 Championship, Simms had the worst game of his career and threw four INTs to spot Colorado a 21 point lead second quarter lead. Major's second pass in that game was 40+ yard TD pass. He rallied the team within 3 points of winning that game. In the bowl game against Washington, Applewhite lead the team from an 18 point late third quarter deficit to win the game. Applewhite was never considered a pro prospect (5'10" and very slow). What he excelled at was reading defenses. You tell me if he digressed as QB.

Now let's talk about Vince. All I heard before last year's game with the Buckeyes was "Make Vince beat us through the air". No one thought Vince could actually improve as a passer after his 2004 season. So did Vince just take a 3000-yard-passing pill before the start of the 2005 season? No, he worked with his coaches, studied film and practiced with his receivers over the summer.

So Vince should get ALL the credit here for his improvement and NONE goes to Mack Brown and his staff? Well, I guess you would have to believe that if you wanted to continue to believe that Mack can't develop QBs

I'm not worried about the QB rotation this year. Both QBs need the snaps but I think Colt will eventually win out. He's already drawing some comparisons with Applewhite (both are sons of coaches). In fact, I would be surprised if Snead plays much against OSU simply because McCoy has a reputation now of making the right throw at the right time and Snead's rep is that he uses his cannon of an arm to force a throw that shouldn't have been made.
 
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bchorn said:
I think most Buckeyes are going to be surprised by McCoy. Not because he'll play like a fifth year senior (because he won't). But instead because it seems like most Buckeyes have such a low expectations for Colt to begin with.
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I don't think we have incredibly low expectations of him. It's more a factor of his lack of experience and the fact that this is a HUGE game (#1 vs. #2), rather than any of us thinking that he lacks talent. I think Colt will do just fine if things are kept simple for him. That is, if UT's running game is working well, opening up the passing game so that guys are wide open, and Colt's facing third and short all night, I think he'll do fine. But if UT's running game is not doing well and Colt's facing 3rd and 7 or 8 all night long, I think his inexperience will catch up with him by the end of the night and we'll win.
 
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bchorn said:
Well, I guess you would have to believe that if you wanted to continue to believe that Mack can't develop QBs
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Why wouldn't I want to continue believing that Mack Brown can't develope QB's? :biggrin:

It sure makes our prospects of winning a hell of a lot better. And if he does develope them (extremely quickly, how did Vince Young do in his first year again?) then it makes your shot of winning that much better.
 
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bchorn said:
Applewhite was the Big 12 Offensive Freshman of the Year in 1998 and the co-Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year in 1999. Yes, they mishandled the QB rotation in 2000 and then in 2001 just plain out right made Simms the starter over Applewhite. In the 2001 Big 12 Championship, Simms had the worst game of his career and threw four INTs to spot Colorado a 21 point lead second quarter lead. Major's second pass in that game was 40+ yard TD pass. He rallied the team within 3 points of winning that game. In the bowl game against Washington, Applewhite lead the team from an 18 point late third quarter deficit to win the game. Applewhite was never considered a pro prospect (5'10" and very slow). What he excelled at was reading defenses. You tell me if he digressed as QB.
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For what it's worth, I never could figure out what UT's coaches saw in Simms vis-a-vis Applewhite that made them choose the former over the latter.
 
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bchorn said:
You wanna start a never-ending thread on a texas message board. Just post a thread asking who's better...Simms or Applewhite?...and watch supporters of both fight feverishly for weeks.
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I got the impression that Chris Simm's got the starting job because of his name and that turned out to be a mistake. Your saying that to this day there are just as many Simm fans as Applewhite fans?
 
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Buckeye86 said:
Why wouldn't I want to continue believing that Mack Brown can't develope QB's? :biggrin:

It sure makes our prospects of winning a hell of a lot better. And if he does develope them (extremely quickly, how did Vince Young do in his first year again?) then it makes your shot of winning that much better.
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Mack has said on many occasions this summer that Colt and Jevan are further along than any other freshman QB he's had at Texas. Even Vince said in his news conference for turning pro that Colt has been answering questions in the QB meetings that Vince couldn't answer when he was a freshman.

Add to this the fact the freshman QBs have better talent surrounding them than any other starting freshman QB in Mack's tenure and things don't look as bleak.

BTW...Vince won 6 of 7 starts as a freshman and was named Big 12 Freshman Offensive player of the year.
 
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TheMightyQuinn said:
I got the impression that Chris Simm's got the starting job because of his name and that turned out to be a mistake. Your saying that to this day there are just as many Simm fans as Applewhite fans?
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buckeyeboy said:
UT fans correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I remember it Applewhite did more for the UT program than Simms ever did.
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I'm not going to touch either of these with a 10 foot pole. Both were great for the program.
 
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Link

8/26/06

Painting the town red ... and gray

OSU fans rent Austin arena, amphitheater

Cox News Service

AUSTIN, Texas - Ohio State has been allotted just 4,000 tickets for the Sept. 9 game with Texas, but there'll be far more people wearing scarlet and gray in Austin that weekend.
"We're projecting 35,000 or 40,000 people," said Bruce Brandel, vice president of the Austin chapter of the Ohio State Alumni Association.
"You'll probably have 10,000 people coming down hoping to get a ticket at the last minute," said Randy Cohen, owner of Ticket City. "I don't know where we're going to put them. It could be like Halloween on Sixth Street."
Actually, their aim is turn Austin into a slice of Columbus, at least for one weekend.
On game day in Columbus, the Ohio State band holds a combination dress rehearsal/pep rally a few blocks from the stadium.
The Erwin Center, where the Longhorns play basketball, is a few blocks away from Royal-Memorial Stadium, so, for $10,000, the alumni association has rented the 16,000-seat arena for an afternoon pregame party.
"We'll play for our alumni and friends and then march over to the stadium," said Ohio State band director Jon R. Woods, who is bringing his entire 225-piece ensemble.
Also, the Buckeyes have lined up the amphitheater at Stubbs, a barbecue joint and music venue on Red River Street, for Friday night and Saturday.
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I think the real problem with Simms was this - and I admit I only watched him play a handful of times - he would step up to center, look one way or another.... if he looked Left.. the play was a pass to whoever was the WR on the left 100% of the time... if he looked right, the play was a pass to a WR on the right, 100% of the time.. if he looked neither direction, it was a run 100% of the time.
 
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