Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[bchorn]

Chance Mock.

and maybe the reason we can't name any other UT QBs is because they all underachieved...?

Lets see here...Chance spent his first three years riding the bench behind Major Applewhite and Chris Simms. Then Chris Simms graduates and Chance gets to final start five games until VY becomes the starter. So Chance spends the next year and half like he spent his first three years. Kinda hard to be developed if your riding the bench behind great talent.

The reason you can't name any others is because there not that many to begin with.

Richard Walton (started 3 games his senior year until he had a season ending injury)
Major Applewhite (took over when Richard got injured)
Chris Simms (enough said here too)
Chance Mock
Vince Young

 

[NFBuck]

Lets see here...Chance spent his first three years riding the bench behind Major Applewhite and Chris Simms. Then Chris Simms graduates and Chance gets to final start five games until VY becomes the starter. So Chance spends the next year and half like he spent his first three years. Kinda hard to be developed if your riding the bench behind great talent.

The reason you can't name any others is because there not that many to begin with.

Richard Walton (started 3 games his senior year until he had a season ending injury)
Major Applewhite (took over when Richard got injured)
Chris Simms (enough said here too)
Chance Mock
Vince Young

See posts #5440,5444 & 5445.

 

[bchorn]

so, was it really Applewhite, or were the Horns simply riding the NCAA career rushing leader to victory?

OK. Earlier that year UT suffered a horrible loss to #5 KSU when Major threw 4 interceptions and Ricky rushed for under 50 yards. Was that all Ricky's fault too?

okaaaay... how did that Big XII Championship game turn out?

Where did I say that Mack was undefeated against top 10 teams? I thought we were discussing how Mack never had any big wins before VY because 2005 "was all VY"

before 2005, the last time UT won anything significant was in 1996, when James Brown completed that 4th and 6 pass against Nebraska in the inaugural Big XII Championship game...

Again, I thought we were discussing "big wins". Yes it has been well documented that Mack never won a conference championship before last year. But I'm simply reminding people that there were big wins before VY.

you're right. it must have been his HORRIBLE recruiting classes...

Yes...another well-documented subject about Mack Brown.

 

[bchorn]

See posts #5440,5444 & 5445.

If you have to refer to previous posts then it sounds like you are giving up. Thanks for conceding.

 

[NFBuck]

OK. Earlier that year UT suffered a horrible loss to #5 KSU when Major threw 4 interceptions and Ricky rushed for under 50 yards. Was that all Ricky's fault too?


Where did I say that Mack was undefeated against top 10 teams? I thought we were discussing how Mack never had any big wins before VY because 2005 "was all VY"


Again, I thought we were discussing "big wins". Yes it has been well documented that Mack never won a conference championship before last year. But I'm simply reminding people that there were big wins before VY.


Yes...another well-documented subject about Mack Brown.

So what is your argument again?

 

[NFBuck]

If you have to refer to previous posts then it sounds like you are giving up. Thanks for conceding.

No, you're just not answering.

 

[bchorn]

So what is your argument again?

This whole discussion came about because someone said Mack hadn't done anything in big games before VY. In other words, UT will continue to go back to underachieving now that VY has left. I was pointing out that Mack did have success prior to VY.

 

[bchorn]

No, you're just not answering.

Is your refresh button not working? I responded to each one of those posts.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Lets see here...Chance spent his first three years riding the bench behind Major Applewhite and Chris Simms. Then Chris Simms graduates and Chance gets to final start five games until VY becomes the starter. So Chance spends the next year and half like he spent his first three years. Kinda hard to be developed if your riding the bench behind great talent.

The reason you can't name any others is because there not that many to begin with.

Richard Walton (started 3 games his senior year until he had a season ending injury)
Major Applewhite (took over when Richard got injured)
Chris Simms (enough said here too)
Chance Mock
Vince Young

how long has Mack been coaching?

 

[bchorn]

how long has Mack been coaching?

Over 20 years and no I'm not familiar with how well his North Carolina QBs did. I just know he lost to Florida State during FSU's heyday.

 

[BB73]

Oh...so you're saying you would have gotten to the Fiesta Bowl that year and won it without Maurice Clarett?

Look I'm just saying that MoC wasn't the only thing that was great about that 2003 team. As great as VY was, I ask the "It was all Vince" crowd to consider how much success VY would have had if he was at Baylor or A&M. Definitely no MNC in that case.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I responded to a post in which you stated this:

We'll just your post under "It was all Vince" category. If I were to be this blind about OSU, I might as well say OSU's 2002 National Championship was "all Maurice Clarett" because really..how many many MNC's has OSU won since he left the program???

I don't believe that either team would have made the NC game without those key players. But VY was a vastly more important contributor to Texas last year than MoC was to tOSU in 2002. I believe that was clearly indicated by the NC game stats.

You appear to enjoy being argumentative, and changing the discussion when something doesn't support your position. You'll have a tough time dealing with many people on this board if you keep acting that way.

I also found your statement that someone was conceding by referring to prior posts as ridiculous. Avoiding repetition of the same points is something that most posters on this board prefer. It certainly isn't a concession of any position.

 

[bchorn]

I don't believe that either team would have made the NC game without those key players. But VY was a vastly more important contributor to Texas last year than MoC was to tOSU in 2002. I believe that was clearly indicated by the NC game stats.

You appear to enjoy being argumentative, and changing the discussion when something doesn't support your position. You'll have a tough time dealing with many people on this board if you keep acting that way.

Sorry...didn't mean to seem argumentative. I post on this board to keep myself objective about my own team and to learn more about the buckeyes. I try to stick with facts and remove any homerism. I guess I'm not doing well with that.

There are alot of knowledge football fans on this website and I appreciate a good debate with facts.

I also found your statement that someone was conceding by referring to prior posts as ridiculous. Avoiding repetition of the same points is something that most posters on this board prefer. It certainly isn't a concession of any position.

The other message boards I post on don't do this so this was a surprise to me. Plus I had already discussed the previous points alluded to so again it seem like a cop-out. Maybe I should have waited longer before responding.

 

[Bucks07]

I don't believe that either team would have made the NC game without those key players. But VY was a vastly more important contributor to Texas last year than MoC was to tOSU in 2002. I believe that was clearly indicated by the NC game stats.

I agree, both made huge plays and were key to their teams, however Vince was not only the most talented player on the team, he was the unquestioned leader. MoC was not a leader of that team. Krenzel and the defense provided the leadership for that team. In fact, as great as Mo's season was, how many of the key plays was he not involved or not even on the field? Cincy, Wisconsin, PSU, Purdue, Illinois were all close games in which Maurice contributed very little if anything.

 

[lvbuckeye]

OK. Earlier that year UT suffered a horrible loss to #5 KSU when Major threw 4 interceptions and Ricky rushed for under 50 yards. Was that all Ricky's fault too?

no. that was Mack Brown getting his pants coached off by Bill Snyder, right?

Where did I say that Mack was undefeated against top 10 teams? I thought we were discussing how Mack never had any big wins before VY because 2005 "was all VY"

he certainly didn't have very many. as it stands, before 2005, Brown's record was startlingly similar to John Cooper's tenure at Ohio State: sure, he could get the team up for the occasional big game, but he sucked balls against his rival and stunk up the Bowl games... i hope for your sake that Mack winning it all wasn't a curse in disguise. you have no idea how thankful i am in retrospect that Ohio State DIDN'T win it all in 1998. we would probably STILL be stuck with Coop...

Again, I thought we were discussing "big wins". Yes it has been well documented that Mack never won a conference championship before last year. But I'm simply reminding people that there were big wins before VY.

see above...

Yes...another well-documented subject about Mack Brown.

Mack Cooper...

 

[inVINCEable]

no. that was Mack Brown getting his pants coached off by Bill Snyder, right?

Dude...that was Mack Brown's first year coaching. He didn't have the needed type of players to compete and we were playing at #5 Kansas State. Kansas State was simply light years ahead athletically and one of the elite teams in the entire nation. IIRC, that Kansas State team was knocked out of the National Championship game in the Big XII championship game. How can you possibly say he was outcoached when everyone expected us to lose that game?

he certainly didn't have very many. as it stands, before 2005, Brown's record was startlingly similar to John Cooper's tenure at Ohio State: sure, he could get the team up for the occasional big game, but he sucked balls against his rival and stunk up the Bowl games... i hope for your sake that Mack winning it all wasn't a curse in disguise. you have no idea how thankful i am in retrospect that Ohio State DIDN'T win it all in 1998. we would probably STILL be stuck with Coop...

Do you even know what Mack Brown's bowl record is? It's 5-3. I don't know what standard you expect your coaches to uphold to, but I'm pretty happy with that record. I would also go out on a limb and say that most Longhorns also mimic this same opinion. More importantly, he's 2-0 in BCS bowls. He also has a victory over LSU in the 2002 Cotton Bowl. I guess by your standards, Mack Brown must have outcoached Nick Saban.

As far as rivals are concerned, Texas A&M is our main rival and will always be no matter how far back they may fall. I would much rather lose to OU than a loss to A&M. Other people may have different opinions. At least against the Aggies, Mack Brown has only lost once and hopefully he'll keep it that way. No matter how bad/good Michigan may get, I'm guessing that they will always be your main rival (even if [insert other Big 10 team considered a rival] might be good). I think Tressel's opening statements might also mimic this..."I can assure you that you"ll be proud of our young people, in the classroom, in the community and most especially in 310 days in Ann Arbor, Michigan!"-Jim Tressel. The troubles with Oklahoma have been well stated, but instead of focusing on the 5 straight losses, one should focus on what changes Mack Brown has made. He fired his defensive coordinator as well as our offensive line coach. These changes can be reflected with our improvement in at least "competing" with Oklahoma. For a man like Mack Brown, the concept of firing a long time friend and coordinator is not an easy task. You just have to spend some time with Mack Brown to realize this concept.

Mack Cooper...

I don't understand what your problem is or need to flame and put down Mack Brown as if he is a 2nd rate coach. Everyone knows that he has had the problem of winning the big game, yet wins against tOSU in the Shoe at night and against the greatest offensive juggernaut to have appeared in the modern era of college football still simply aren't enough. This isn't a contest of who is better...Tressel or Mack Cooper. Even if he does go on to become a "curse in disguise", he still will have brought something that we have been waiting for 36 years.