G Jamar Butler (Official Thread)

[LitlBuck]

It might be harsh...

Maybe I don't know what I am talking about but I think you are making too much of "senior leadership" and "soaring your team under the bus". These guys are no longer in high school they are in college and if they cannot take public criticism, yes even from a teammate, maybe they better go back to junior high school.

Butler has played his ass off this season and he has a right to be frustrated when he sees his teammates not putting forth the same effort or desire to win. You mentioned two games which we lost that we might have won if you would have shot better. How many games would we have won if he had played like the rest of the team in those games?

I think you know how much I respect your opinion but, in a way, I think you are throwing Jamar "under the bus" for saying something that he probably has been thinking for a while. Everyone has their boiling point.

 

[billmac91]

I agree, but these are types of things that need to be done behind closed doors, and also he needs to add WE in there...He is separating himself from the team...



He would not of been drafted last year and he has improved his stock this year by coming back...I do believe that he can be second round pick this year, but look at all mock drafts and he isn't in them...

Probably wouldn't have been drafted, but does Jamar know that?? For some reason, he considered leaving last year so he must of thought he'd of been taken.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Wrong...For sure directed at Jamar...Worst senior leader I have ever seen, and you guys know it is taking a lot for me to say that...

worst?
has he been arrested?
has he been in trouble?
has he gotten it done in the classroom? (atleast to maintain his elig)

that being said, who thought he would really be the leader? its not in his personality, im sorry we all knew that. jamar plays a game that is so controlled and composed it is such a strength it borders as a weakness. he glides, youre crazy if you think hes not trying, but it is there.

youre crazy if you dont think others need to shoulder the blame. matta has publicly bashed his club 3-4 times. no player has said anything outspoken, maybe its what they need. maybe that will bring effort and desire to the club, i have no idea. that being said i dont know what to say, its been said since oct that this group of guys doesnt play hard. period. they dont play hard, they dont practice hard. you need every member of the team to put the effort in. cant blame jamar, its a team thing, each person has to buy in.

jamars personality is not the type a, rah rah leader.

the troy smith comparison is a joke. ill be honest, troy smith is a joke. i didnt see butler screwing around, lauging playing grab... while his team was getting kicked on the field. that comparison is a joke, im sorry.

you know jamar better than me 40, but its a team game...

whys he get shut down against better teams, well a couple of reasons.
1-no other option. teams dare guys to beat them, nobody has been able to the in the big games.
2-the ball is in his hands too much -see 1
3-hes good, hes not that good...

 

[osugrad21]

Dispatch

OSU men's basketball: Butler's tough love
Senior guard, coach look for consistency from Buckeyes
Tuesday, February 5, 2008 3:10 AM
By Bob Baptist


THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH


Jamar Butler kept his word. After Ohio State scored 48 points in a loss Saturday at Iowa -- a team it had beaten by 31 last month -- the Buckeyes' best player vented his frustrations with a young team that he said continues to take two steps back every time it takes one forward.
"We keep trying to be positive," said Butler, a four-year starter at guard. "I'm done with that. I'm just going to start going at guys and tell them like it is."
Coach Thad Matta stayed characteristically positive yesterday. He said that, upon further review, the Buckeyes' effort against the Hawkeyes wasn't bad, that their shots just didn't fall. He said Butler's comments "probably were blown a little bit out of proportion."
He also said Butler was "phenomenal" in practice the day after the game.
"He was probably more vocal than I've ever seen him, which I thought was awesome," Matta said. "We need that from Jamar."



Cont...

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Either Matta is downplaying it to the media or he likes what Butler has said after the Iowa loss.....I think it is somewhere in between.......

Five years ago, guard Brent Darby, drained by a season of carrying his team, as Butler is now, complained publicly about a lack of effort in a late-season home loss that extinguished Ohio State's flickering hopes of an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament. Ironically, the loss game against Iowa, which had lost seven of its previous nine games.
"Some players didn't give it their all," Darby said.
Two weeks later, the eighth-seeded Buckeyes were playing in the championship game of the Big Ten tournament. With an NCAA Tournament bid on the line, they lost to Illinois in the title game.

Lets hope we get the same results.....

 

[crazybuckfan40]

He also said Butler was "phenomenal" in practice the day after the game.
"He was probably more vocal than I've ever seen him, which I thought was awesome," Matta said. "We need that from Jamar."

Where was this before...Why did it takes this lose for this to happen...Why did it take him 22 games into the season to become a leader in practice...

worst?
has he been arrested?
has he been in trouble?
has he gotten it done in the classroom? (atleast to maintain his elig)

I am talking about on the court...Not off the court...

that being said, who thought he would really be the leader? its not in his personality, im sorry we all knew that. jamar plays a game that is so controlled and composed it is such a strength it borders as a weakness. he glides, youre crazy if you think hes not trying, but it is there.

Now you have heard me say that he wouldn't be a leader, and you have never saw me say he doesn't play hard...The reason I said what I did is because he isn't leading the team...His tirade in the paper is not leading...IMHO...

youre crazy if you dont think others need to shoulder the blame. matta has publicly bashed his club 3-4 times. no player has said anything outspoken, maybe its what they need. maybe that will bring effort and desire to the club, i have no idea. that being said i dont know what to say, its been said since oct that this group of guys doesnt play hard. period. they dont play hard, they dont practice hard. you need every member of the team to put the effort in. cant blame jamar, its a team thing, each person has to buy in.

Once again I never said that everyone shouldn't shoulder the blame...The problem is in Jamar's comments he is putting the blame on everyone else, by saying he needs someone else to step up or they weren't ready etc...It is a team not an individual and then the rest of them...
jamars personality is not the type a, rah rah leader.

the troy smith comparison is a joke. ill be honest, troy smith is a joke. i didnt see butler screwing around, lauging playing grab... while his team was getting kicked on the field. that comparison is a joke, im sorry.

Agreed Troy was a much better leader on the field, don't let one game cloud your judgement...He had command of his team in the huddle, and players looked to him for leadership...He came out in the paper and made comments when he was a sophomore, he didn't do anything like that after he grew up...Troy grew into the leadership role, which is what I have always thought maybe Butler could do, and I always held out hope, but in the back of my mind I knew it was not a likely situation...

you know jamar better than me 40, but its a team game...

whys he get shut down against better teams, well a couple of reasons.
1-no other option. teams dare guys to beat them, nobody has been able to the in the big games.
2-the ball is in his hands too much -see 1
3-hes good, hes not that good...

He has always laid eggs in big games for whatever reason...Last year in the championship he had other guys to turn to, but didn't play well...

I agree that he is good, and Jamar is better with the ball in his hands, but the more he creates for his teammates the more it would open it up for him...He didn't realize that KK and Hunter were scoring down low against Iowa or else he would of made sure as the pg they got the ball instead he was jacking 3's 3 out of the 5 possessions when we were tied, and he obviously wasn't feeling it...

 

[LitlBuck]

Where was this before...Why did it takes this lose for this to happen...Why did it take him 22 games into the season to become a leader in practice......

Just because I am not going to get into a lengthy discussion about Butler's leadership capabilities does not mean that I do not disagree with a lot of the statements you have made regarding Jamar. Not only in this post but in many of your other posts since Saturday night.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Just because I am not going to get into a lengthy discussion about Butler's leadership capabilities does not mean that I do not disagree with a lot of the statements you have made regarding Jamar. Not only in this post but in many of your other posts since Saturday night.

So you agree with me or disagree?


Very ambiguous statement there...

 

[LitlBuck]

So you agree with me or disagree?


Very ambiguous statement there...

Sorry... I disagree. Just because he made some comments to the media means squat to me. He has played his heart out this season. What's the difference between making comments to the media and a player holding a "closed door" only players meeting like Coleman from UM did? Nevermind. I consider his leadership abilities closed.:)

 

[jimotis4heisman]

yes, yes

both on varying levels.

interesting views, but that what makes this place great.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Hoops & Scoops: an OSU basketball blog

quotes from jamar after the iowa game

-- On the Buckeyes’ mindset going into the game:
“We come in here, just because we beat them by 30 or whatever we did at home (79-48 on Jan.9), we think we’re just going to roll over a team. It’s not going to be like that. They’re playing on their home floor, they’re going to try to protect their home, and they did.”

- On a desperation layup he missed, after the play had broken down, with two seconds on the shot clock, 40 seconds left in the game and Ohio State trailing 49-46:
“The play we set up (during a timeout) we didn’t execute and that busted the whole play. I had to try to get to the rim and put it up there. I was surprised when I put it up and all four of my (teammates) were standing out at the three-point line and nobody crashed the boards. I mean, two seconds on the shot clock, you’ve got to go get it. That’s the one thing you can do. I have no clue what they were doing.”

-- On how he felt the same way after a loss at Purdue on Jan.12, but that was three weeks ago:
“I never thought this would happen. I thought we were taking steps in the right direction. But every time we take a step forward we take two back. We can’t do that.”

-- On how much the young team has matured 22 games into the season:
“Last year’s team, this never would have happened, I can tell you that. Guys were mentally ready to go night in and night out. I guess it was just more important to us last year.”

 

[LitlBuck]

Jamar is starting to look like he is wearing down. He was hardly even looking for his shot in the first half and not much, if anything, would go down for him in the second half. Most of his shots were short which to me indicates that his legs might be tiring. I really don't care if he is 10 pounds lighter when you play that much basketball your legs have to tire sooner or later. If he isn't getting tired physically, I would think that he might be getting tired emotionally as Clark K mentioned today because of all the 40 minute games he has played.

 

[osugrad21]

Scout $

Jardy also believes Jamar is wearing down..

 

[crazybuckfan40]

After rewatching the game, it just seemed that he was getting frustrated after every to or every offensive rebound, but yet he wasn't trying to do anything about it, like he wasn't helping anyone out with encouragement...

He made two bad passes to Diebler and Lighty, where both went off their hands and he acted pissed at them...He threw his hands up in disbelief about 5 times during the game...

He is just separating himself from the team IMO...We need to play as a team and not individuals...I think that is our problem...

 

[LitlBuck]

After rewatching the game, it just seemed that he was getting frustrated after every to or every offensive rebound, but yet he wasn't trying to do anything about it, like he wasn't helping anyone out with encouragement...

He made two bad passes to Diebler and Lighty, where both went off their hands and he acted pissed at them...He threw his hands up in disbelief about 5 times during the game...

He is just separating himself from the team IMO...We need to play as a team and not individuals...I think that is our problem...

He has put so much into the program over the time that he has been here he probably wants to go out on a winning note... you think? I think that he probably realizes he is not going to go out on top and that might be reason for his frustration. However, I think you are blaming Butler for a lot of things that are not his fault just because he went public. I will admit that at times he throws some lazy passes but I am sure that there are other times where guys are supposed to be someplace and they are not.