ScarletBlood31
Buckeye in Blacksburg
even so, someone not on the team could have still could have drugged her. And regardless if she was drunk, or drugged, it would affect her ability to identify or remember someone.
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- Thread starter jimotis4heisman
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even so, someone not on the team could have still could have drugged her. And regardless if she was drunk, or drugged, it would affect her ability to identify or remember someone.
methomps
an imbecility, a stupidity without name
These guys need to weigh whether playing lacrosse for a few more years is worth transferring out of a top school like Duke. I don't know anything about the prospects of pro lacrosse, but I bet the prospects are pretty slim. Syracuse, Penn State, and Delaware are not on Duke's level, academically.
That said, I hope they aren't forced out via loss of scholarship. That would be lame on Duke's part (with obvious exception for email guy).
That said, I hope they aren't forced out via loss of scholarship. That would be lame on Duke's part (with obvious exception for email guy).
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
I know what you mean methomps, but - perhaps in a third pan on the scale of life is putting up with the poisonous atmosphere created by this whole thing on and around the Duke campus. I'm guessing the one's looking to transfer are those that have parents able to pony up the tuition for one or more years.
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Folanator
Brawndo's got electrolytes...
I know some guys that have played pro and they needed a second job to eat. That will tell you something about the pro indoor or outdoor leagues.
I 100% guarantee that these guys just want to play ball. It does not have anything to do with being paid for it by going pro. They just love to play and it is killing them that they cannot. I just got back from my sons game and there is no better game in the world.
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scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but LaCrosse is getting a bad rep.
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OSUsushichic
Fired up! Ready to go!
Whether or not a rape occured at the Duke party, it sounds like things got really ugly....
Second Stripper From Duke Party Offers Her Account
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 21, 2006
DURHAM, N.C., April 21 (AP) — A stripper who performed at a Duke University lacrosse team party initially doubted the story of a colleague who told the police she had been dragged into a bathroom and raped.
Now, the woman, Kim Roberts, is not so sure.
"I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred — and I never will," Ms. Roberts told The Associated Press on Thursday in her first on-the-record interview. But after watching defense attorneys release photos of the accuser, and upset by the leaking of both dancers' criminal records, she said of the lacrosse players that she had to "wonder about their character."
"In all honesty, I think they're guilty," Ms. Roberts said. "And I can't say which ones are guilty."
She added: "Somebody did something besides underage drinking. That's my honest-to-God impression."
Attorneys for the 46 players have asserted the players' innocence, citing DNA tests and photos from the party.
The photos, the defense maintains, show the accuser was both injured and impaired when she arrived at the party, and also support the claim that one of the two players who has been indicted would not have had enough time to participate in any assault before he left the party. The district attorney has said a third suspect in the case may also be charged.
Ms. Roberts told a member of the defense team that she did not believe her colleague's rape accusations, defense attorneys said. They said Ms. Roberts was now changing her story to gain favorable treatment in a criminal case against her. They added that she had e-mailed a New York public relations firm, asking for advice on "how to spin this to my advantage."
Ms. Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 — eight days after the party — on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by The A.P.
On Monday, the same day a grand jury indicted two lacrosse players, Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, a judge agreed to a change so that Ms. Roberts would no longer have to pay a 15 percent fee to a bonding agent. District Attorney Mike Nifong signed a document saying he would not oppose the change.
"It seems she is receiving very favorable financial treatment for what she is now saying," said Bill Thomas, an attorney for a lacrosse player who has not been charged in the case.
Mark Simeon, Ms. Roberts's attorney, said the bond conditions had been changed because his client was not considered a flight risk. Mr. Nifong, who has not spoken with reporters about the case in weeks, did not return a call seeking comment.
Ms. Roberts's testimony could be vital in any trial of Mr. Seligmann and Mr. Finnerty, who have been indicted on charges of first-degree rape, sexual offense and kidnapping.
Other than lacrosse players and the accuser, a 27-year-old student at a nearby university, Ms. Roberts is believed to be the only other person who was at the March 13 party.
Ms. Roberts said Thursday that she did not remember Mr. Seligmann's face, but that she recalled seeing Mr. Finnerty.
"I was looking him right in the eyes," she said.
Ms. Roberts declined to talk extensively about the party, but she did confirm some of the details the other dancer told the police, including that the women left the party after one of the players threatened to sodomize them with a broomstick.
The accuser told the police that the women had been coaxed back into the house with an apology, then they were separated and she was dragged into a bathroom and sexually assaulted for a half-hour.
Later, the police received a 911 call from a woman complaining that she had been called racial slurs by white men gathered outside the home where the party took place. Ms. Roberts acknowledged that she had made the call because she was angry.
Ms. Roberts, who had driven herself to the party, said that she could have left anytime but that she "didn't want to leave her with them."
Afterward, Ms. Roberts drove the accuser to a grocery and asked a security guard to call 911. The accuser was described later by a police officer as "just passed-out drunk."
Ms. Roberts said the woman, whom she had just met that night, was sober when they arrived at the house. But by the time the party was over, she said the accuser was too incoherent to tell her where she lived, let alone that she had been raped.
"I didn't do enough," Ms. Roberts said, tears welling in her eyes. "I didn't do enough. I didn't do enough."
The defense timeline is backed up by a cabdriver who said Mr. Seligmann called for a ride at 12:14 a.m., and was picked up five minutes later. The defense argues that if the dancers were performing around midnight, Mr. Seligmann would not have had enough time to participate in the 30-minute assault described by the accuser.
The cabbie, Moez Mostafa, also said he had seen a woman leaving the party in anger, and had overheard someone say, "She just a stripper. She's going to call the police."
"She looked, like, mad," Mr. Mostafa said of the woman. "In her face, the way she walked, the way she talked, she looked like mad."
On Thursday, authorities released warrants detailing their search earlier this week of Mr. Finnerty's and Mr. Seligmann's dormitory rooms. The police removed a newspaper article and an envelope addressed to Mr. Finnerty from his room, and an iPod, various accessories, computer manuals, photos and a CD from Mr. Seligmann's room.
Also Thursday, 5W Public Relations, a New York firm that specializes in "crisis communication," distributed an e-mail signed "The 2nd Dancer," and Ms. Roberts confirmed she had sent it after learning that The A.P. knew her identity.
"I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," she wrote. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage."
Ronn Torossian, president of 5W', said he had replied, but had not received a response.
Ms. Roberts said that she knew what it was like to be in jail and that she would never wrongly accuse an innocent person.
"If the boys are innocent, sorry fellas," she said. "Sorry you had to go through this."
But unlike her and the accuser, she said, they have money to hire the best attorneys.
"If they're innocent, they will not go to jail," she said. But, she added, "If the truth is on their side, why are they supporting it with so many lies?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/21/u...3e266b5b2f2d&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss
Second Stripper From Duke Party Offers Her Account
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 21, 2006
DURHAM, N.C., April 21 (AP) — A stripper who performed at a Duke University lacrosse team party initially doubted the story of a colleague who told the police she had been dragged into a bathroom and raped.
Now, the woman, Kim Roberts, is not so sure.
"I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred — and I never will," Ms. Roberts told The Associated Press on Thursday in her first on-the-record interview. But after watching defense attorneys release photos of the accuser, and upset by the leaking of both dancers' criminal records, she said of the lacrosse players that she had to "wonder about their character."
"In all honesty, I think they're guilty," Ms. Roberts said. "And I can't say which ones are guilty."
She added: "Somebody did something besides underage drinking. That's my honest-to-God impression."
Attorneys for the 46 players have asserted the players' innocence, citing DNA tests and photos from the party.
The photos, the defense maintains, show the accuser was both injured and impaired when she arrived at the party, and also support the claim that one of the two players who has been indicted would not have had enough time to participate in any assault before he left the party. The district attorney has said a third suspect in the case may also be charged.
Ms. Roberts told a member of the defense team that she did not believe her colleague's rape accusations, defense attorneys said. They said Ms. Roberts was now changing her story to gain favorable treatment in a criminal case against her. They added that she had e-mailed a New York public relations firm, asking for advice on "how to spin this to my advantage."
Ms. Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 — eight days after the party — on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by The A.P.
On Monday, the same day a grand jury indicted two lacrosse players, Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, a judge agreed to a change so that Ms. Roberts would no longer have to pay a 15 percent fee to a bonding agent. District Attorney Mike Nifong signed a document saying he would not oppose the change.
"It seems she is receiving very favorable financial treatment for what she is now saying," said Bill Thomas, an attorney for a lacrosse player who has not been charged in the case.
Mark Simeon, Ms. Roberts's attorney, said the bond conditions had been changed because his client was not considered a flight risk. Mr. Nifong, who has not spoken with reporters about the case in weeks, did not return a call seeking comment.
Ms. Roberts's testimony could be vital in any trial of Mr. Seligmann and Mr. Finnerty, who have been indicted on charges of first-degree rape, sexual offense and kidnapping.
Other than lacrosse players and the accuser, a 27-year-old student at a nearby university, Ms. Roberts is believed to be the only other person who was at the March 13 party.
Ms. Roberts said Thursday that she did not remember Mr. Seligmann's face, but that she recalled seeing Mr. Finnerty.
"I was looking him right in the eyes," she said.
Ms. Roberts declined to talk extensively about the party, but she did confirm some of the details the other dancer told the police, including that the women left the party after one of the players threatened to sodomize them with a broomstick.
The accuser told the police that the women had been coaxed back into the house with an apology, then they were separated and she was dragged into a bathroom and sexually assaulted for a half-hour.
Later, the police received a 911 call from a woman complaining that she had been called racial slurs by white men gathered outside the home where the party took place. Ms. Roberts acknowledged that she had made the call because she was angry.
Ms. Roberts, who had driven herself to the party, said that she could have left anytime but that she "didn't want to leave her with them."
Afterward, Ms. Roberts drove the accuser to a grocery and asked a security guard to call 911. The accuser was described later by a police officer as "just passed-out drunk."
Ms. Roberts said the woman, whom she had just met that night, was sober when they arrived at the house. But by the time the party was over, she said the accuser was too incoherent to tell her where she lived, let alone that she had been raped.
"I didn't do enough," Ms. Roberts said, tears welling in her eyes. "I didn't do enough. I didn't do enough."
The defense timeline is backed up by a cabdriver who said Mr. Seligmann called for a ride at 12:14 a.m., and was picked up five minutes later. The defense argues that if the dancers were performing around midnight, Mr. Seligmann would not have had enough time to participate in the 30-minute assault described by the accuser.
The cabbie, Moez Mostafa, also said he had seen a woman leaving the party in anger, and had overheard someone say, "She just a stripper. She's going to call the police."
"She looked, like, mad," Mr. Mostafa said of the woman. "In her face, the way she walked, the way she talked, she looked like mad."
On Thursday, authorities released warrants detailing their search earlier this week of Mr. Finnerty's and Mr. Seligmann's dormitory rooms. The police removed a newspaper article and an envelope addressed to Mr. Finnerty from his room, and an iPod, various accessories, computer manuals, photos and a CD from Mr. Seligmann's room.
Also Thursday, 5W Public Relations, a New York firm that specializes in "crisis communication," distributed an e-mail signed "The 2nd Dancer," and Ms. Roberts confirmed she had sent it after learning that The A.P. knew her identity.
"I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," she wrote. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage."
Ronn Torossian, president of 5W', said he had replied, but had not received a response.
Ms. Roberts said that she knew what it was like to be in jail and that she would never wrongly accuse an innocent person.
"If the boys are innocent, sorry fellas," she said. "Sorry you had to go through this."
But unlike her and the accuser, she said, they have money to hire the best attorneys.
"If they're innocent, they will not go to jail," she said. But, she added, "If the truth is on their side, why are they supporting it with so many lies?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/21/u...3e266b5b2f2d&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss
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Folanator
Brawndo's got electrolytes...
I am sorry. I keep wanting to believe that these woman are not making this whole thing up, but then stuff like this comes out. I think they were both pissed that they were treated like shit at the party and were out to get them, hence the 911 calls saying "they called me a Ni@&@^" to the cops.Fine be pissed, but WTF. The ends does not justify what they look like they are doing here.
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scooter1369
HTTR Forever.
So desperate for a conviction, they're paying for testimony and affidavits?
Case closed.
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OSUsushichic
Fired up! Ready to go!
Yeah, it's going to be really, really hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys raped her. Unless of course there is some killer evidence that we don't know about. As much crap that has come out in the press, I highly doubt there is. Everyone's reputation all the way around has been completely blown no matter what the outcome. What a clusterfuck.
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
With no matching DNA, an ID based on body scratches, and with the one kid having a documented alibi, this DA has some real trouble on his hands.
First, he's going to have a tough time proving that a rape occurred. Even if he gets that proven, then there's the issue of which of the 40 or so guys at the party did it. The defense can simply argue that even if a rape occurred that the two defendants weren't there and don't know anything about it.
If they're going to claim that she was drugged, then they'd better have toxicology tests proving that she had some kind of date rape drug in her system, and they'd have better turned up some of that drug in all of their search warrants.
Count me as skeptical at this point. It sounds to me more like a DA pandering to local sentiment and voters.
First, he's going to have a tough time proving that a rape occurred. Even if he gets that proven, then there's the issue of which of the 40 or so guys at the party did it. The defense can simply argue that even if a rape occurred that the two defendants weren't there and don't know anything about it.
If they're going to claim that she was drugged, then they'd better have toxicology tests proving that she had some kind of date rape drug in her system, and they'd have better turned up some of that drug in all of their search warrants.
Count me as skeptical at this point. It sounds to me more like a DA pandering to local sentiment and voters.
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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
I have read that particular piece 3 times, more because I could not believe the leap to "guilty because I think their attorneys are slime" which made this eminently reliable witness do a complete 180-degrees.
Any defending attorney on cross-examination is going to eat this girl up, just as easily as she made up her mind that its the boys are not all right, on the basis of evidence presented by the defense that contradicts her co-workers key allegation.
Any defending attorney on cross-examination is going to eat this girl up, just as easily as she made up her mind that its the boys are not all right, on the basis of evidence presented by the defense that contradicts her co-workers key allegation.
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