Duke Blue Devils (that rat faced scumbag)

[OH10]

here's a random question not directed at anybody.....if it's such a horrible thing that UNC had their best players in at the end of the game, why does dook get to have their best players in?

I do believe the classy move is to take out the starters. But I have a big problem with Coach K's comments that this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been in - it sounds like he's trying to blame Roy Williams and make excuses for his players. I don't believe there's any excuse for Henderson's conduct.

 

[BB73]

here's a random question not directed at anybody.....if it's such a horrible thing that UNC had their best players in at the end of the game, why does dook get to have their best players in?

I'll take a stab at this one. I blamed both coaches in an earlier post, stating that Duke calling time out, when down 13 with about 50 seconds left, helped keep the intensity in a contest that was over. But Williams also could have taken his starters out before Frasor got fouled with 19 seconds left.

Williams is getting most of those questions about keeping players in simply because Hansbrough is the guy that got hurt. But in the last minutes of a game that's all over except for the clock, whose players are more at risk? I'd say the team that's winning is more likely to have somebody hurt by a hard foul.

Coach K mentioned that Henderson didn't start, acting like it was more OK to still have him in than it was for Willams to still be playing Hansbrough. But that comment's a joke, since Henderson was Duke's best player yesterday.

Both coaches are to blame regarding who was in the game.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

Wow, I finally just looked at the video online and got a chance to watch it several times in a row. The was definitely a suspension-worthy foul. He almost looked like he got a running start and tried to decapitate Hansbrough with the back of his arm. While I'm not going to say that is exactly what he was trying to do, getting suspended was definitely appropiate for that. You don't go into a crowd of players with that much force and recklessness and not expect something to happen.

Henderson deserved what he got. I don't think it should go much further than that.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

I'll take a stab at this one. I blamed both coaches in an earlier post, stating that Duke calling time out, when down 13 with about 50 seconds left, helped keep the intensity in a contest that was over. But Williams also could have taken his starters out before Frasor got fouled with 19 seconds left.

Williams is getting most of those questions about keeping players in simply because Hansbrough is the guy that got hurt. But in the last minutes of a game that's all over except for the clock, whose players are more at risk? I'd say the team that's winning is more likely to have somebody hurt by a hard foul.

Coach K mentioned that Henderson didn't start, acting like it was more OK to still have him in than it was for Willams to still be playing Hansbrough. But that comment's a joke, since Henderson was Duke's best player yesterday.

Both coaches are to blame regarding who was in the game.

It's also a joke since (and I'm going off of the play-by-play on espn.com) McRoberts, Paulus, and Nelson were all in the game.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

(message taken from public to private)

 

[buckeyeboy]

you sincerely believe henderson did this intentionally despite what information from the tape we have seen shows.

No offense, but your logic here is horrible. You assume what is bolded above, despite the facts that (1) what is bolded above is an opinion, not a fact and (2) not only is it an opinion, but you are in the vast minority of those that hold that opinion. Put another way, you base your entire argument on an opinion that very few people (if anyone, besides you) hold. Let me put it this way: you are about the only one in this thread (besides coastalbuck, maybe) who thinks the foul was merely an accident and therefore not flagrant. What does that tell you?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

No offense, but your logic here is horrible. You assume what is bolded above, despite the facts that (1) what is bolded above is an opinion, not a fact and (2) not only is it an opinion, but you are in the vast minority of those that hold that opinion. Put another way, you base your entire argument on an opinion that very few people (if anyone, besides you) hold. Let me put it this way: you are about the only one in this thread (besides coastalbuck, maybe) who thinks the foul was merely an accident and therefore not flagrant. What does that tell you?

Just b/c someone is on the minority of the opinion does not make it wrong...

I also posted that due to the blood that it made it look much worse than what it really was.

I agree it was a hard foul and that was the intent, but I don't agree the elbow was intended for the face and don't agree with the suspension, but I can live with the ejection due to the situation and there being little time left in the game...

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

I agree it was a hard foul and that was the intent, but I don't agree the elbow was intended for the face and don't agree with the suspension, but I can live with the ejection due to the situation and there being little time left in the game...

do you think that it would have been wrong to eject henderson if the same situation took place, say, a few minutes into the game?

 

[buckeyefool]

here's a random question not directed at anybody.....if it's such a horrible thing that UNC had their best players in at the end of the game, why does dook get to have their best players in?

because duke thought they had a change at scoring 16 points in 17 seconds with the starters in :P

 

[BB73]

I agree it was a hard foul and that was the intent, but I don't agree the elbow was intended for the face and don't agree with the suspension, but I can live with the ejection due to the situation and there being little time left in the game...

The way that the announcers were talking, the grounds for the ejection mandated him being suspended for the next game. I don't think they were able to eject him without the suspension, unless they did something hokey like calling two technicals on him.

I don't think he was trying to break his nose, but the way he went after him was dangerous; and if somebody fouls a guy hard like that he has to be prepared to live with the results, even if they were more severe than what was intended.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

do you think that it would have been wrong to eject henderson if the same situation took place, say, a few minutes into the game?

If the game was close, yes I would of had a problem with it, but I think that the refs handled the situation the best way they could by ejecting him, b/c it is not like him staying in the game would of effected the game...

The way that the announcers were talking, the grounds for the ejection mandated him being suspended for the next game. I don't think they were able to eject him without the suspension, unless they did something hokey like calling two technicals on him.

I thought this was only the case if they deemed it a punch, and also thought that it was a reviewable thing? What if the refs thought they saw something they didnt? Is there no wiggle room?

I don't think he was trying to break his nose, but the way he went after him was dangerous, and if you foul somebody hard like that you have to be prepared to live with the results, even if they were more than what was intended.

I guess my whole stance on the situation is that I think he was going to for the hard foul, but he was going to try for the ball, and when the ball was stripped he adjusted and his elbow met Hansbrough's face...

I also don't think we can really know his real intent due to the fact that the ball was stripped...

Also for the people using the angle that Henderson should of picked him up, you just don't do that in a rivalary...

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

If the game was close, yes I would of had a problem with it, but I think that the refs handled the situation the best way they could by ejecting him, b/c it is not like him staying in the game would of effected the game...

a player who commits a flagrant foul must be immediately ejected from the court. as i've stated a couple times before, intent is immaterial as to flagrancy. an excessive, harsh foul is reason enough for it to be considered flagrant. even though henderson might not have intended to harm another player, he exhibited disregard for the other players. he committed a foul on top of another player's foul. he leaped into a crowd without control. he never made contact with the ball. the arm that would have been used to rebound the ball or block a shot was never outstretched. he instead led with his elbow and forearm. finally, he happened to apply enough force with his elbow and forearm to hansbrough's face as to draw a lot of blood and break his nose. all the while, he did this when his team was down by a lot of points with very little time left. whether hansbrough was going to dunk the ball has no bearing on whether henderson's foul was flagrant.

again, even if intent is not considered, there is no question that henderson committed a flagrant foul. as such, he had to be ejected. there is no fuzzy area there. it does not matter when during a game a flagrant foul is committed. for a player to be ejected only under certain time conditions sends a very bad message to the players.

 

[Thump]

a player who commits a flagrant foul must be immediately ejected from the case.

"Case"?

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

"Case"?

of course, i meant "court." it was an oversight due to quick typing of a quasi-legal matter.

 

[Jeffcat]

wow. i'm just wondering what replay you watched.



here's a random question not directed at anybody.....if it's such a horrible thing that UNC had their best players in at the end of the game, why does dook get to have their best players in?

the same one that you supposedly saw considering i watched the whole game. as soon as the foul happened i the first thing i thought about was a whole crying fest over the foul.