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Defensive Staff Next Year?

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Jaxbuck said:
Speaking of defensive recruiting; your two best are LJS and Coombs, neither of which are getting any younger. Al Washington is often referred to positively in recruiting but his unit has been underwhelming at best the past two years. I have no idea how Barnes does with recruiting but when we are talking staff restructuring, you are going to have to solve for more than just the scheme.
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It's such a fine line. Two of the absolute worst coaches we have had lately, Tim Beck and Bill Davis were both excellent recruiters. I'm of the opinion that Ohio State largely sells itself. As long as you don't hire a goofy bastard that can't get out of his own way, he should be able to recruit to Ohio State. The trick is he needs to be able to coach the kids up.
 
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NFBuck said:
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It's such a fine line. Two of the absolute worst coaches we have had lately, Tim Beck and Bill Davis were both excellent recruiters. I'm of the opinion that Ohio State largely sells itself. As long as you don't hire a goofy bastard that can't get out of his own way, he should be able to recruit to Ohio State. The trick is he needs to be able to coach the kids up.
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We've seen the devastating effects of both extremes. Great recruiters who couldn't coach and (supposedly) great coaches who mailed it in recruiting.

Like most things, a balance needs to be struck
 
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cdiddy70 said:
I think you will be wildly disappointed if you want to see “wholesale” changes.

Can’t see them asking LJ to move on.
Washington is unlikely after Day fought for him to stay at a significant pay difference.
Barnes was handpicked and put in a tough spot.

I could see Coombs not returning. He has been publicly emasculated.

The concerning thing is how Day choose to replace a high priced successful coach (Mattison) last year.
Bump Barnes and name a ST coach.
It was almost like it was a budget move.
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I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing Day was caught a bit off guard by his retirement and decided instead of scrambling in late January to find a long-term replacement, he figured Greg was just a "Co-Dc", you still have Coombs and you have a vet like LJ. Probably figured if things don't work out in 2021, you have time to do a more thorough search. Just my take on it, anyway.
 
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NFBuck said:
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing Day was caught a bit off guard by his retirement and decided instead of scrambling in late January to find a long-term replacement, he figured Greg was just a "Co-Dc", you still have Coombs and you have a vet like LJ. Probably figured if things don't work out in 2021, you have time to do a more thorough search. Just my take on it, anyway.
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Day could have also very well been working under a budget directive from the AD.
2020/COVID was not kind to any teams finances.
 
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Well they don't have much else to do right now except focus on changes....and they'll have to make them quick. The coaching carousel is in full motion and if you snooze you lose....lots of major openings at USC, Oklahoma, Florida, LSU....lots of opportunities for similar guys to who we are going to be looking at and staffs are going to be assembled overnight. Will be an interesting 48 hours.
 
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Washington was considered effective when Hefley called the defense (remember we were happy compared to the departed Bill Davis). LJ hasn't become stupid in the last 2 years.

One thing has changed in that period. Day hired someone who never called a defense at the college or pro level, ever. When the results were not better after a year and 3 games, he replaced him with someone who did it for a few games.

I thought KC was a great hire. I was wrong. Ohio State needs someone that has experience calling a defense.
 
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This sums things up for me. I expect change on the def side of the ball.


Comments about Washington. He was a DL coach prior if I’m not mistaken and this was his first time coaching LBs. I guess the plan was to learn under Matthison and take over for LJsr when he was ready to retire but I’m not 100% sure on this line of thinking
 
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cdiddy70 said:
I think you will be wildly disappointed if you want to see “wholesale” changes.

Can’t see them asking LJ to move on.
Washington is unlikely after Day fought for him to stay at a significant pay difference.
Barnes was handpicked and put in a tough spot.

I could see Coombs not returning. He has been publicly emasculated.

The concerning thing is how Day choose to replace a high priced successful coach (Mattison) last year.
Bump Barnes and name a ST coach.
It was almost like it was a budget move.
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Dammit I thought the same thing. To me we didn't maximize that extra staff position and simply promoting from within was a terrible decision.

Promoting from within is awesome in retail management but not so much in football. You go get the best available.
 
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In all this discussion about defensive changes I think it's important to keep the overall philosophy of Day in mind and learn to accept the reality fo what that means for the foreseeable future.

Day has aid he wants a 4-2-5 single high safety defense because he feels it's the best against the pass. I don't think that's going to change. Day clearly believes in pass first/stop the pass. Obviously he's not stupid and understands you must be balanced but that is getting into the "how" more than the "what/why".

At the same time, for 7 years now, Jimmy has clearly declared he is going to be a run first/stop the run kind of team that is a change up to all the high powered passing attacks. This is what Wisconsin did well in the 90's and early 2000's so we have that history to draw on.

My point is that we are going to have an Ali/Frazier contrast in styles as long as we have Day and Harbaugh leading the two programs. The reality of that for OSU is that every once in a while, the stars align and Jimmy is going to have a team that can beat OSU. So far, I think he's had two teams that could do it 2016 and 2021. Both had experienced, good defenses that could slow down the OSU offense enough to let him run his manball offense the whole game. Both times he caught a very young OSU team.

Going forward I think it's a mistake to change your style to try and be like the other guy. I used to say that Cooper tried to out Wisconsin, Wisconsin and should have relied on his skill advantage more. I believe the same thing today. Sure we need to do better at stopping the run and playing zone defense etc but those, again, are "hows". I think most years you simply beat tsun with your skill and live with the fact that every once in a while, the lesser talented teams are going to drag you down in the mud to play their game.

I am on the lookout for years where OSU is very young and tsun is very experienced and especially worried when we have to play them on the road, in bad weather.
8D
 
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Jaxbuck said:
In all this discussion about defensive changes I think it's important to keep the overall philosophy of Day in mind and learn to accept the reality fo what that means for the foreseeable future.

Day has aid he wants a 4-2-5 single high safety defense because he feels it's the best against the pass. I don't think that's going to change. Day clearly believes in pass first/stop the pass. Obviously he's not stupid and understands you must be balanced but that is getting into the "how" more than the "what/why".

At the same time, for 7 years now, Jimmy has clearly declared he is going to be a run first/stop the run kind of team that is a change up to all the high powered passing attacks. This is what Wisconsin did well in the 90's and early 2000's so we have that history to draw on.

My point is that we are going to have an Ali/Frazier contrast in styles as long as we have Day and Harbaugh leading the two programs. The reality of that for OSU is that every once in a while, the stars align and Jimmy is going to have a team that can beat OSU. So far, I think he's had two teams that could do it 2016 and 2021. Both had experienced, good defenses that could slow down the OSU offense enough to let him run his manball offense the whole game. Both times he caught a very young OSU team.

Going forward I think it's a mistake to change your style to try and be like the other guy. I used to say that Cooper tried to out Wisconsin, Wisconsin and should have relied on his skill advantage more. I believe the same thing today. Sure we need to do better at stopping the run and playing zone defense etc but those, again, are "hows". I think most years you simply beat tsun with your skill and live with the fact that every once in a while, the lesser talented teams are going to drag you down in the mud to play their game.

I am on the lookout for years where OSU is very young and tsun is very experienced and especially worried when we have to play them on the road, in bad weather.
8D
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We don't have to change schemes but we need to have answers too.

We can't be Oregon 2008-2014 where if we play a tough physical team we can't get off the field. Literally 50-60% of the big ten is run based and that should always be priority #1 on defense. Personally I'm surprised we didn't go 5 DL yesterday when it was obvious we couldn't stop them.

Just a lot added up these past 2 years. No difference makers up front, scheme was rough and a first time DC.

I think next year we will have the players needed up front to do anything we want. What we have coming back reminds me of 2019 and it can be such a special year if we hire the correct person to teach a diverse defense.

I agree though that it seems ttun has a very good team every 4-5 years and 2016/2021 are no doubt the two that come to mind. Next year they're going to be a shell of themselves IMO.
 
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Good post Jax.
Still think we need to have the ability to adjust.

I remember last year we went to a 4-4 alignment when we smoked them at home.

Maybe because of injuries and depth we just couldn’t.
Seemed like a game for PG (USC Tranny) but alas he was hurt.
Still can’t believe we couldn’t find a way to get Kourt Williams on the field in these situations.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Good post Jax.
Still think we need to have the ability to adjust.

I remember last year we went to a 4-4 alignment when we smoked them at home.

Maybe because of injuries and depth we just couldn’t.
Seemed like a game for PG (USC Tranny) but alas he was hurt.
Still can’t believe we couldn’t find a way to get Kourt Williams on the field in these situations.
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We absolutely must have the ability to adjust, or at least moderately slow down, the 2 TE/manball offense. It's not even a question in my mind the defense must improve.

I was just commenting on going too far down the path of changing who you are. The OSU style is the better style, just tighten up the damn defense.
 
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ScarletInMyVeins said:
Is it really too much to ask for the current offense, and a late 90's/early 2000's shut down defense?
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Against bad offenses, no that isn't too much to ask. Against good offenses, yes. It's not a realistic expectation.

It's a race to 30 these days. How easily you can get there and past it while making it hard as hell for your opponent.

All this team needs is the right guy(s) in charge of the defense to get it to above average. Doesn't have to be great and likely never will be given the focus on a pass first offense.
 
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