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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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tsteele316 said:
1. Perhaps you didn't bother to watch how terrible JR Smith was defensively last year, and how absolutely dumb he was on both sides of the court. Danny Green is a big upgrade, especially over korver and shumpert.

2. david griffin's salary demands had nothing to do with his removal. period.

3. You have zero evidence for this claim. the fact is that the cavs, before griffin left, shopped love around to the bulls and lottery teams, and got zero takers.
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The hostility in your posts makes you generally unpleasant to deal with.

1. Perhaps you didn't bother to watch Danny Green last year. He isn't what he once was on the defensive end. The Spurs also tend to be one step ahead of everyone else. That's probably the case for their own players, as well.

2. Griffin was underpaid. Gilbert has never re-signed a GM since becoming the owner. Both of these facts provide more than circumstantial evidence that Griffin's salary had something to do with his removal. Griffin's performance was exemplary and he had LeBron's support. I'm not sure why else you'd think he was fired. It wasn't performance-based.

3. Well, actually...
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
The hostility in your posts makes you generally unpleasant to deal with.

1. Perhaps you didn't bother to watch Danny Green last year. He isn't what he once was on the defensive end. The Spurs also tend to be one step ahead of everyone else. That's probably the case for their own players, as well.

2. Griffin was underpaid. Gilbert has never re-signed a GM since becoming the owner. Both of these facts provide more than circumstantial evidence that Griffin's salary had something to do with his removal. Griffin's performance was exemplary and he had LeBron's support. I'm not sure why else you'd think he was fired. It wasn't performance-based.

3. Well, actually...
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1. Danny Green, a leg injury last year, had a better defensive rating than Smith. And he's 4 years younger than Smith.

2. So, you've made a leap in logic not based on facts. Dan Gilbert shells out luxury year after year without batting an eye. Dan Gilbert no keeping GM's is based on his meddling and insistence on moves (Kay Felder). Your circumstantial evidence doesn't hold.

3. Did you actually read the article you posted? Cavs made offers to teams. Nobody wants Kevin Love for what the Cavs want in return.
 
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When he went back to cle I thought we'd get lebron for 6 years. If it's only 4 then go get george on a loaner and take one more swing for the fences before dropping back to the bottom of the league. Hope your enjoyed the ride. It's about to get rocky again.
 
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The nice thing about getting George is that it'd finally allow LeBron to move to the 4. He's been better suited for PF for the last couple years, and I think that transition would extend his career another year or two.

tsteele316 said:
1. Danny Green, a leg injury last year, had a better defensive rating than Smith. And he's 4 years younger than Smith.

2. So, you've made a leap in logic not based on facts. Dan Gilbert shells out luxury year after year without batting an eye. Dan Gilbert no keeping GM's is based on his meddling and insistence on moves (Kay Felder). Your circumstantial evidence doesn't hold.

3. Did you actually read the article you posted? Cavs made offers to teams. Nobody wants Kevin Love for what the Cavs want in return.
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I didn't want to reply to you at all, but this potential Denver trade is vindication for what I said earlier, and I'm but a mortal with human weaknesses.

1. I never said Smith was good or that Danny Green wasn't better. I was simply saying that the Spurs were asking a hefty price for Green and we don't have a ton of assets to bargain with, so do we really want to use resources on a 30-year-old SG who doesn't move the needle?

2. Gilbert doesn't mind paying the luxury tax, but clearly he doesn't value GMs (seeing as he hasn't re-signed any) and doesn't like paying for performance (as he never rewarded Griffin with a better deal after we won the title). Gilbert likes to meddle, too, but I never said Griffin was only fired for monetary reasons. You're making it into false choice. Classic either-or fallacy.

3. And finally, the promised vindication:

BuckeyeMafia said:
3. The Cavs absolutely would've made a move by now if Griffin were still GM. In fact, he put plans in place to trade for Butler or George before he left. Kevin Love has more value than the trash the Bulls got from Minnesota, even if it required Chicago to make a second trade to see that value.
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In this case, replace Chicago with Indiana and second trade with third trade partner.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
The nice thing about getting George is that it'd finally allow LeBron to move to the 4. He's been better suited for PF for the last couple years, and I think that transition would extend his career another year or two.



I didn't want to reply to you at all, but this potential Denver trade is vindication for what I said earlier, and I'm but a mortal with human weaknesses.

1. I never said Smith was good or that Danny Green wasn't better. I was simply saying that the Spurs were asking a hefty price for Green and we don't have a ton of assets to bargain with, so do we really want to use resources on a 30-year-old SG who doesn't move the needle?

2. Gilbert doesn't mind paying the luxury tax, but clearly he doesn't value GMs (seeing as he hasn't re-signed any) and doesn't like paying for performance (as he never rewarded Griffin with a better deal after we won the title). Gilbert likes to meddle, too, but I never said Griffin was only fired for monetary reasons. You're making it into false choice. Classic either-or fallacy.

3. And finally, the promised vindication:



In this case, replace Chicago with Indiana and second trade with third trade partner.
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false equivalency. paul george is walking from indiana after the season. their leverage, and the bulls leverage, are two totally different things. and yet, the trade is not done because denver doesn't want to give up anything close to what the pacers want in what would be in exchange for love. so, once again, this shows that the value of love is not there.
 
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tsteele316 said:
false equivalency. paul george is walking from indiana after the season. their leverage, and the bulls leverage, are two totally different things. and yet, the trade is not done because denver doesn't want to give up anything close to what the pacers want in what would be in exchange for love. so, once again, this shows that the value of love is not there.
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Yes, but that false equivalence goes the other way. Chicago had more leverage than Indiana. Indiana seems to think that they have more leverage than Chicago despite the fact that George's contract expires next year and he's desperate to play for the Lakers. Indiana would've gotten a better haul for George had they accepted that three-team trade than Chicago did for Butler.

A superstar (Love) may not factor into Indiana's rebuild, but teams like Denver and Phoenix are desperate for a player like that.

The market for George will be interesting to watch because the Cavs are the only team that has a chance to retain him (outside of the Lakers themselves) beyond next year. Boston may decide to overpay for him, but I don't see that happening. I think Indiana would be wise to deal him before the season starts, but we'll see. You're never going to get more than 50 cents on the dollar for a superstar, but that's better than watching him leave for nothing.
 
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Here's a tidbit from Zach Lowe's latest column, regarding the George trade:

The Pacers, Cavs, and Nuggets on Friday resuscitated a three-way deal that would have sent George to Cleveland and Kevin Love to Denver, according to several league sources. The Pacers could have had a package centered around Gary Harris, Trey Lyles, and a protected first-round pick, sources say. The Cavs, Nuggets, and Celtics were stunned when news of the trade broke on Twitter.
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I'd like to blame our front office for missing out on George, but you really can't blame them for Indy's stupidity. Do they really think Oladipo and Sabonis are more appetizing than Kevin Love or Harris, Lyles, and a first rounder?

Unbelievable turn of events. Fortunately for the Cavs, George probably would've left next year anyway.
 
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