Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[tsteele316]

I would submit those scouting services are overvaluing size and youth... again. As they do every year.

If Drummond were a sophomore or junior with his struggles, he'd fall out of the lottery. Just as Sullinger or Barnes would have been easily top 5 last year, but since they didn't improve on some of their weaknesses, scouts began picking apart their games. The scouts, for whatever reason, overrate guys they know very little about, hoping that based on measureables they have a lot of potential. And teams tend to draft out of fear of letting the next big thing pass them by. It is often wrong.

Barnes was far more productive on a stacked Carolina team his freshman year than Drummond was this past year. He would have been one of the top 3 picks in last year's draft. He had an even better year this year and, outside of the NCAA tournament performance with a new walk-on point guard, he did nothing this year to affect that grade in my opinion.

The Cavs would be making a HUGE mistake to pass on him for Drummond.



And how many people had the Cavs taking Tristan Thompson last year? Anybody that thinks they know what the Cavs are going to do is fooling themselves.

actually, after workouts and interviews a lot of people realized that thompson to the cavs was quite a likely scenario. it was hardly surprising. and if drummond blows up in workouts and interviews the way thompson did, guess what will happen.

 

[pharaz1]

so should the magics have drafted emeka okafor over dwight howard? emeka was a safer pick and an outstanding college player. howard had scouts questioning his passion for the game and commenting on his terrible shooting mechanics. but his rare combination of size and athleticism was hard to overlook. same thing with bynum and amare. drafting a big man is usually a risky decision because of how raw most of them are. you can go ahead and throw out a long list of big men who were busts, but another list would have howard, bynum, amare, greg monroe, chandler, nene. you sometimes have to take a chance and drummond has qualities that are rare to find along with being a good rebounder, defender, and good kid.

i think this is a pretty fair breakdown of his game. it has a couple highlights too.
http://swishscout.com/?page_id=1632

 

[OHSportsFan]

actually, after workouts and interviews a lot of people realized that thompson to the cavs was quite a likely scenario. it was hardly surprising. and if drummond blows up in workouts and interviews the way thompson did, guess what will happen.

Like you said earlier though, if Drummond does any blowing up...chances are the Cavs don't even get to choose his name from their list.

Which would be fine by me. I think I saw some GM say Drummond is one of those players you want someone else to take before you so you don't have to even think about it. I have to agree. I'm so intrigued by him and see so much potential. I even brought his name up first. I'd be OK with the pick but, I think I'd still rather he be someone else's problem and grab a solid wing.

You have to admit he's a pretty precarious prospect, right?

 

[OH10]

actually, after workouts and interviews a lot of people realized that thompson to the cavs was quite a likely scenario. it was hardly surprising. and if drummond blows up in workouts and interviews the way thompson did, guess what will happen.

Find me one credible mock draft last year that had Tristan to the Cavs. Most had him at around 7 to the Kings or 8 to the Pistons. Don't make stuff up.

No one here knows what the Cavs are going to do. The Cavs don't even know what they're going to do.

so should the magics have drafted emeka okafor over dwight howard? emeka was a safer pick and an outstanding college player. howard had scouts questioning his passion for the game and commenting on his terrible shooting mechanics. but his rare combination of size and athleticism was hard to overlook. same thing with bynum and amare. drafting a big man is usually a risky decision because of how raw most of them are. you can go ahead and throw out a long list of big men who were busts, but another list would have howard, bynum, amare, greg monroe, chandler, nene. you sometimes have to take a chance and drummond has qualities that are rare to find along with being a good rebounder, defender, and good kid.

The only complaint about Howard coming out of high school was his passion for the game. He dominated in the paint and had a back-to-the-basket game that Drummond is still light years away from developing, if ever.

Add in the fact that we've now seen Drummond compete in college and it was underwhelming to say the least. He had a slightly better freshman campaign for a comparable team as B.J. Mullens.

I've heard comparisons to Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee. I think those are more apt than the wishful-thinking hope that Drummond could become as good as Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum. I'd probably compare Drummond's potential right now to Theo Ratliff or Ben Wallace. He doesn't have it offensively at all. And, quite frankly, we already drafted a guy at #4 last year who is an excellent shot blocker who needs a lot of work on the offensive end. Let's just make it 2 to be redundant!

And while we're waiting on those two to develop some semblance of an offensive game, who is going to score the points? Or are we just planning to suck again until we finally break out in 2016?

The biggest problem with drafting potential in a small market is free agent retention. These guys sign rookie contracts that expire after less than 5 years. Nobody wants to be in Cleveland unless they're playing for a winner. So this cannot be a long-term rebuild. We need to start competing in 2013-2014 for a playoff spot. Drummond does not do that for this franchise with all of his current glaring deficiencies. He's a three-year project at best.

 

[NFBuck]

Drummond made 26-88 (29.5%) of his FTs last season. How is that even possible?

 

[OHSportsFan]

Drummond made 26-88 (29.5%) of his FTs last season. How is that even possible?

 

[tsteele316]

Find me one credible mock draft last year that had Tristan to the Cavs. Most had him at around 7 to the Kings or 8 to the Pistons. Don't make stuff up.

No one here knows what the Cavs are going to do. The Cavs don't even know what they're going to do.



The only complaint about Howard coming out of high school was his passion for the game. He dominated in the paint and had a back-to-the-basket game that Drummond is still light years away from developing, if ever.

Add in the fact that we've now seen Drummond compete in college and it was underwhelming to say the least. He had a slightly better freshman campaign for a comparable team as B.J. Mullens.

I've heard comparisons to Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee. I think those are more apt than the wishful-thinking hope that Drummond could become as good as Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum. I'd probably compare Drummond's potential right now to Theo Ratliff or Ben Wallace. He doesn't have it offensively at all. And, quite frankly, we already drafted a guy at #4 last year who is an excellent shot blocker who needs a lot of work on the offensive end. Let's just make it 2 to be redundant!

And while we're waiting on those two to develop some semblance of an offensive game, who is going to score the points? Or are we just planning to suck again until we finally break out in 2016?

The biggest problem with drafting potential in a small market is free agent retention. These guys sign rookie contracts that expire after less than 5 years. Nobody wants to be in Cleveland unless they're playing for a winner. So this cannot be a long-term rebuild. We need to start competing in 2013-2014 for a playoff spot. Drummond does not do that for this franchise with all of his current glaring deficiencies. He's a three-year project at best.

actuall, anyone that followed the cavs last year knew that thompson was a real possibility, especially after he basically owned enes kanter when the cavs had both in for a private workout. it was pretty well known to those that actually paid attention. hell, all you had to do is go to page one in this thread to see this.

the other ridiculous line of logic in this post is the notion that you draft lower ceiling players that might be less of a project because of the market you're in. that's simply dumb. you don't win nba titles with a gaggle of above average players. it's just dumb. if irving progresses at all, cleveland is going to be a fringe playoff team anyway. working themselves into the milwaukee bucks of being the perpetual 6 seed at best with a handful of better than average players isn't appealing to anybody.

 

[OH10]

actuall, anyone that followed the cavs last year knew that thompson was a real possibility, especially after he basically owned enes kanter when the cavs had both in for a private workout. it was pretty well known to those that actually paid attention. hell, all you had to do is go to page one in this thread to see this.

the other ridiculous line of logic in this post is the notion that you draft lower ceiling players that might be less of a project because of the market you're in. that's simply dumb. you don't win nba titles with a gaggle of above average players. it's just dumb. if irving progresses at all, cleveland is going to be a fringe playoff team anyway. working themselves into the milwaukee bucks of being the perpetual 6 seed at best with a handful of better than average players isn't appealing to anybody.

The first talk of taking Thompson occurred on the eve of the draft. And it was considered 'talk' at the time and certainly not "likely" as you stated. But if you need to exaggerate to make a point, then the point isn't made. Second, is this the eve of the draft? My calender says it's not for a few weeks. (checking, checking....). Yup. June 28.

If you think you know what the Cavs are doing at 4 in this draft, then you know more than Chris Grant. Congrats.

On the Bucks, I did not know they had Kyrie Irving already as the cornerstone of their franchise. The Cavs need to draft guys to build around that guy, not offensive stiffs in the middle clogging the lane for a penatrating point guard. Again, I reiterate that we already have two post players that rebound, play defense, and can't do much on offense. Why would we want another just because there's a 10% chance (I'm being very generous here) he could be great in 5-6 years when Kyrie is already begging out of town to play for a contender? And if you think that's not something the Cavs need to be considering, then you weren't paying attention in July 2010.

 

[Brutus1]

Barnes vs Drummond does not matter. The Cavs are going to take MKG with their first pick, then a shooter at #24. I'm hoping they can till get Doran Lamb at #33

 

[exhawg]

Barnes vs Drummond does not matter. The Cavs are going to take MKG with their first pick, then a shooter at #24. I'm hoping they can till get Doran Lamb at #33

I hope you are right.

 

[NFBuck]

Barnes vs Drummond does not matter. The Cavs are going to take MKG with their first pick, then a shooter at #24. I'm hoping they can till get Doran Lamb at #33

Highly doubt he's there at four.

 

[y0yoyoin]

Find me one credible mock draft last year that had Tristan to the Cavs. Most had him at around 7 to the Kings or 8 to the Pistons. Don't make stuff up.

No one here knows what the Cavs are going to do. The Cavs don't even know what they're going to do.

there are credible mock drafts? most mock drafts just list players by talent...they could care less what teams needs are...its pointless to even look at them...id rather read combine and workout reports...and every case you have been arguing about Drummond could be the same case for Barnes...if not worse for Barnes...drummond at least only underachieved for one year...and yes your right...i have no idea what the cavs will do...i just know if im chris grant and i have beal and barnes there for the taking, im taking beal...if its barnes or drummond, im taking the risk on drummond...his pure potential and upside is too good to turn down...you cant base a players future on one year alone in college...hes already off to a good start by losing weight and having great workouts...teams will be able to figure out thru interviews if this kid is serious about the NBA, or if he is doing all of this stuff right now for a pay day...chris grant should be able to find that out i would hope...and if i want a pure shooter to pair with Irving, similar to barnes, i can wait and get a buford type in the 2nd round...u wont find a drummond in the second round...and beal is all around gifted so thats why hes almost a sure bet for top 5 pick...the cavs are still a few years from seriously competeing...they could afford to hit the lottery one more year

 

[OH10]

there are credible mock drafts? most mock drafts just list players by talent...they could care less what teams needs are...its pointless to even look at them...id rather read combine and workout reports...and every case you have been arguing about Drummond could be the same case for Barnes...if not worse for Barnes...drummond at least only underachieved for one year...and yes your right...i have no idea what the cavs will do...i just know if im chris grant and i have beal and barnes there for the taking, im taking beal...if its barnes or drummond, im taking the risk on drummond...his pure potential and upside is too good to turn down...you cant base a players future on one year alone in college...hes already off to a good start by losing weight and having great workouts...teams will be able to figure out thru interviews if this kid is serious about the NBA, or if he is doing all of this stuff right now for a pay day...chris grant should be able to find that out i would hope...and if i want a pure shooter to pair with Irving, similar to barnes, i can wait and get a buford type in the 2nd round...u wont find a drummond in the second round...and beal is all around gifted so thats why hes almost a sure bet for top 5 pick...the cavs are still a few years from seriously competeing...they could afford to hit the lottery one more year

Fair enough. I strongly disagree, but that's all hot air for the next 3 years until we see what these guys do at the next level.

 

[tsteele316]

The first talk of taking Thompson occurred on the eve of the draft. And it was considered 'talk' at the time and certainly not "likely" as you stated. But if you need to exaggerate to make a point, then the point isn't made. Second, is this the eve of the draft? My calender says it's not for a few weeks. (checking, checking....). Yup. June 28.

If you think you know what the Cavs are doing at 4 in this draft, then you know more than Chris Grant. Congrats.

On the Bucks, I did not know they had Kyrie Irving already as the cornerstone of their franchise. The Cavs need to draft guys to build around that guy, not offensive stiffs in the middle clogging the lane for a penatrating point guard. Again, I reiterate that we already have two post players that rebound, play defense, and can't do much on offense. Why would we want another just because there's a 10% chance (I'm being very generous here) he could be great in 5-6 years when Kyrie is already begging out of town to play for a contender? And if you think that's not something the Cavs need to be considering, then you weren't paying attention in July 2010.

so, kyrie irving is a child like narcissist like lebron james? did you perform a psych evaluation on him or are you just talking out of your ass once again?

so, what you're really advocating is that cleveland draft marvin williams 2.0 so they can be the atlanta hawks instead of the milwaukee bucks. solid theory. but please continue your agenda of taking low ceiling average players. and i'll repeat myself for about the 50th time since you can't grasp the concept, it's all about workouts and interviews with drummond. just like it was with tristan thompson. the minute he got done working out in cleveland it came out that he was a legit possibility at #4. the same thing will happen one way or the other with drummond. why you can't grasp this is puzzling.

by the by, you trying to call out anyone for hyperbole is comical.

 

[OH10]

so, kyrie irving is a child like narcissist like lebron james? did you perform a psych evaluation on him or are you just talking out of your ass once again?

so, what you're really advocating is that cleveland draft marvin williams 2.0 so they can be the atlanta hawks instead of the milwaukee bucks. solid theory. but please continue your agenda of taking low ceiling average players.

by the by, you trying to call out anyone for hyperbole is comical.

I don't know what Kyrie Irving is. I do know he's not from Northeast Ohio. Lebron isn't the only Cleveland sports free agent to bolt town. He's just the only one that did so after his team posted the best record in the NBA two years in a row for a team 35 minutes from where he grew up.

You really shouldn't call anybody out for "talking out of their ass." You've been making [Mark May] up this whole debate. At least I'm not faking facts.

You want to draft a big athletic man with no basketball skills. Fine. I want to draft a big athletic wing with basketball skills. We'll see in a few years who was right.