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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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There are only 2 PFs that I would consider better players than Love when factoring in both age and ability, and that's Blake Griffin and Anthony Davis. Considered Aldridge as well, but he's 29 to Love's 25. Then looking at other positions, players I would take over Love when factoring in age and ability are Cousins and Drummond at C (Drummond only b/c of the outrageous potential he has), KD and LBJ at SF, nobody at SG, and then PG there's 3 guys who I don't know if I would take any over or maybe even all three (Steph Curry, Russ Westbrook, and Chris Paul who is 29 though). So for me that would place him at a top 10 player when also factoring in his age. Obviously would be a different list if just top players today. But even then I'd probably say top 15 regardless of age being factored in. So to trade a player like Wiggins who one day could be a top 5 player, but could also one day "only" be a top 50 player for someone who is a top 10 player now is worth the trade IMO. Considering your superstar is 30 years old, I personally would do it. When your top 3 players are the #1/2 player in the world, a top 10 guy, and let's say a top 30-50 guy in Kyrie, that's pretty damn good. Better than what the Heat had IMO.

I've said before that if you didn't get LBJ, you don't trade Wiggins for Love even if he were to resign. Just because you're not winning with just Love and Kyrie. But matching Love with LeBron and Kyrie now could be what it takes to win championships with LeBron now.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
There are only 2 PFs that I would consider better players than Love when factoring in both age and ability ...
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What in the world does age have to do with being a "better player?" Better fit on your team, sure, age counts. But when I evaluate how good a player is, it's all to do with production, which is the result of ability and effort.

In any event, if Stephen A's report is correct that Love is telling everyone, "Cleveland or no extension," then there's no need for Cleveland to offer up Wiggins. Either get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters and pick(s) now or get him for free in a year. Minnesota's leverage has evaporated.
 
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MaxBuck said:
What in the world does age have to do with being a "better player?" Better fit on your team, sure, age counts. But when I evaluate how good a player is, it's all to do with production, which is the result of ability and effort.

In any event, if Stephen A's report is correct that Love is telling everyone, "Cleveland or no extension," then there's no need for Cleveland to offer up Wiggins. Either get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters and pick(s) now or get him for free in a year. Minnesota's leverage has evaporated.
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So if you were Minnesota would you trade Love for Dirk? Because for a year, maybe two, you could argue Dirk is the better player. Just ignore the fact that Love is 25, just now entering his prime, and Dirk is 36 and will be out of the league in a few years. That's all I meant by factoring in age as well. The same reason why OKC wouldn't trade KD for LBJ. Right now you can easily make the argument that LBJ is the better player, but he's 29 and KD is 25. You have to factor in current talent with sustainability.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
So if you were Minnesota would you trade Love for Dirk? Because for a year, maybe two, you could argue Dirk is the better player. Just ignore the fact that Love is 25, just now entering his prime, and Dirk is 36 and will be out of the league in a few years. That's all I meant by factoring in age as well. The same reason why OKC wouldn't trade KD for LBJ. Right now you can easily make the argument that LBJ is the better player, but he's 29 and KD is 25. You have to factor in current talent with sustainability.
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You keep bringing up irrelevant arguments. I'm not talking about who I'd trade for whom; I'm talking about who are the best players in the NBA today. I don't know that I'd trade Anthony Davis for Kevin Durant, but KD is clearly a better player today.
 
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All I know is that Love is capable of scoring anywhere on the court.
A big reason Miami made it to the finals every year was that LeBron, Bosh, and Wade could all score whenever they needed a bucket.
That's also why the Bulls couldn't beat Miami, as good as they were defensively they could never make enough shots offensively.
Pacers have that problem where they will go long droughts without scoring. They will miss Lance, he could create offense.
Miami could also erase big deficits quicker than anyone because they had so many knock down shooters.

Scoring consistently can suck the life out of the opponent. That's what the Spurs did to Miami in the Finals. Sucked the life out of them.

One outlet now is saying that its rumored Love wants to be a Free Agent and not "opt-in"
Would it even be possible for the Cavs to clear enough cap space next year to offer Love a max deal as a Free Agent?
 
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ethan said:
One outlet now is saying that its rumored Love wants to be a Free Agent and not "opt-in"
Would it even be possible for the Cavs to clear enough cap space next year to offer Love a max deal as a Free Agent?
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People keep saying that they can, but I don't see how with so much money tied up in Lebron and Kyrie. The only way I can see would be a sign and trade with Haywood's contract next year. IMO getting Love will get much harder after the trade deadline. It's also a better deal for the Wolves before the deadline.

Regardless it's still 50+ days until the Cavs can move the contracts they picked up from Utah so don't expect anything before then.
 
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MaxBuck said:
You keep bringing up irrelevant arguments. I'm not talking about who I'd trade for whom; I'm talking about who are the best players in the NBA today. I don't know that I'd trade Anthony Davis for Kevin Durant, but KD is clearly a better player today.
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It's the value I would assign to a player. Hence the reason why I worded it the way I did (you know, the one you replied to and asked "What in the world does age have to do with being a 'better player?'"). I made it pretty clear I was talking about overall value, and not best current player. Maybe you just didn't get that? IDK.

I said "So for me that would place him at a top 10 player when also factoring in his age. Obviously would be a different list if just top players today. But even then I'd probably say top 15 regardless of age being factored in."

And FYI, unless you want your team to be shitty in 5 years when LeBron is gone, I sure as hell would hope that trading away Wiggins would not only net a top current player, but also one who's still young. So I guess it's not an "irrelevant argument"? I mean the whole question of "is Love a top XX player?" revolves around the potential trade. Therefore, a value you assign to him in any way would therefore be relevent to the question of "Love is a top XX player."
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
It's the value I would assign to a player. Hence the reason why I worded it the way I did (you know, the one you replied to and asked "What in the world does age have to do with being a 'better player?'"). I made it pretty clear I was talking about overall value, and not best current player.
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You've been arguing with me and disputed my opinion that Love isn't one of the best ten players today. So when you change the terms of the argument midstream, yeah, it's confusing, not to mention irrelevant.

"Overall value" is a function not only of the player but of the team he's on. The value of some young point guard would obviously be a lot less to the Cavs than it would be to, say, the Suns. Top ten player means one of the ten best, and can't mean "one of the ten best values," which would be team-dependent. Kind of silly argument in any event. We agree Love would be a great addition in Cleveland. Just not, IMO, if they have to give up Wiggins to get him.
 
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The TWolves are looking at trading for Thaddeus Young now. They are feeling the heat for sure about losing Love. Maybe we can get a 3 team going and be able to keep Wiggins. Sounds like the way to go now. TWolves should never have played this hand in my opinion. If The front office has any gumption they should get on the horn to Philly right now.
 
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NJ-Buckeye said:
Blue sky Scenario
Cavs send Waiters, the 3 new from trade and next yr#1 to Timberwolves
Cavs send Bennett, #1 pick and $2M to 76ers
Wolves send Love and Dieng to Cavs
Wolves send Rubio, Barea and $1M to 76ers
Phila sends Young to Wolves
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I think the 76ers want Waiters.

BTW- ESPN Trade Machine really needs a trade date selection so you can test a trade 60 days from now when everyone on the roster is fair game.
 
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NJ-Buckeye said:
Blue sky Scenario
Cavs send Waiters, the 3 new from trade and next yr#1 to Timberwolves
Cavs send Bennett, #1 pick and $2M to 76ers
Wolves send Love and Dieng to Cavs
Wolves send Rubio, Barea and $1M to 76ers
Phila sends Young to Wolves
Click to expand...

Eh, not to get all greedy and all, but if the reports are true that Love only wants to go to Cleveland, then there's no way in [censored] I'd give up Waiters, Bennett, the three new guys, two #1s and $2million for Love and Dieng.
 
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