Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

[ImFrigginFly]

All I know is I put Love and Lebron together on the Cavs in my NBA 2k14 franchise and I have a really hard time playing with Love. Can't figure out how to use him. KEEP WIGGINS!!1!!11!

 

[buckeyesin07]

When demand exceeds supply, then the seller always has the leverage. There is one Kevin Love and many teams that want to acquire him. Hence, Minnesota has the leverage.

There's a difference between "want" and "want and are able." I really want OSU vs. Michigan tickets this year, but if I'm only willing to offer $20/ticket, that doesn't drive up the price a [censored] bit.

Couple that with the fact that Minnesota doesn't have Love after this coming season, and Minnesota doesn't have leverage. Flip Saunders will go all Flip Saunders in this situation, so long as the Cavs step back and let him...

 

[LordJeffBuck]

There's a difference between "want" and "want and are able." I really want OSU vs. Michigan tickets this year, but if I'm only willing to offer $20/ticket, that doesn't drive up the price a [censored] bit.

Couple that with the fact that Minnesota doesn't have Love after this coming season, and Minnesota doesn't have leverage. Flip Saunders will go all Flip Saunders in this situation, so long as the Cavs step back and let him...

If Minnesota doesn't have leverage, then why is Kevin Love still a member of the Timberwolves?

 

[NorthCoastKid]

Alot of people keep saying if we trade for Love, we would have nobody for the future on this team. I want to expand on that topic with a breakdown.

I am going on the assumption that a trade for Kevin Love will be Wiggins/Bennett and 1st round picks. I doubt Andy or Tristan get traded because they are LeBron people and if they do, we are getting more players. But for simplicity sake, I am just going by the main rumored trade.

If that trade happens this is what the Cavs roster looks like:

PG - Irving & Dellavedora
SG - Waiters/Joe Harris/Ray Allen* (If he signs)
SF - LeBron/Mike Miller & James Jones
PF - Kevin Love/Tristan
C - Varejao & Haywood

Really the only need left then is a Center. I hope we get one in the Kevin Love trade, but there could be something else out there that I am not aware of. But those 3 non-guarenteed guys we got from Utah could be sent to get some body at center.

So say we go with these guys this year... not bad, just one glaring hole at Center.

Next offseason Andy becomes a free agent. Good guess he comes back at a reduced salary to stay with LeBron. Tristan is due an extention too. And Love will opt out and re-sign a max deal with us. Only losses will be Allen & James Jones, but they could come back at vet minimums.

So it isn't like we have to make a ton of moves to fill positions. Our big move is the Haywood contract, we can bring in something. What? Well... that center hole is still there. Plus if we do lose Allen/Jones, I could see us getting some vet minimum guys chasing rings and/or mid-level exception type guys?

So it isn't like we have a lack of depth and need alot of players. This isn't a Miami situation where we need to find 5-6 bodies to fill out the roster. We also still have adequate players on this team surrounding the big 3. If we want to make a big move, we could trade Waiters then with the Haywood contract and get very solid pieces for this team.

Excellent points. They'll also have the full mid-level and biannual exceptions granted to teams over the salary cap next season. Gives them quite a few options to expand on what will already be a very good roster.

 

[buckeyesin07]

If Minnesota doesn't have leverage, then why is Kevin Love still a member of the Timberwolves?

Because the trade deadline's not tomorrow. Otherwise, he would be gone. Minnesota can puff its chest out all it wants, but midnight is going to strike when the deadline gets here. And the problem for Minnesota is that everyone else knows that too. It would be one thing if Minnesota had other serious offers on the table. But Golden State has told them to pound salt and the Bulls just made an offer that makes Bennett, Waiters and a first round pick sound like Jordan, Magic and Wilt.

It would be one thing if Minnesota had Love tied up for several years, if Love hadn't told Minnesota he won't re-sign with them, or if Love said he'll sign a long-term deal with any team Minnesota trades him to. Unfortunately, none of those facts is true. Hence the lack of leverage.

 

[ethan]

No team that wants Love, really wants to wait for the deadline though...So Minnesota does have leverage right now.
They can pick and choose whatever offer they want. They don't have to accept the Cavs offer even if its the best..out of spite.
Minnesota has full control and leverage of where Love goes this year. Its all up to Flip.

Golden State wanted Love and the 13th pick. If they change their minds, they may be happy only taking Love...That trade could still happen.
Unless Love tells them he wont re-sign with them, which i'm thinking he may have done that.

 

[Buckeye737]

If Minnesota doesn't have leverage, then why is Kevin Love still a member of the Timberwolves?

This makes no sense. You can flip this argument the other way. If Minnesota has the leverage, why is Andrew Wiggins still a Cleveland Cavalier?

The leverage situation isn't clear cut, but Minnesota does NOT have the leverage. The Cavs can stand pat, and I'd actually be thrilled about it at this point. I love where this team is headed without the Love trade. The Celtics and others can stand pat as well. There is no change to their rosters if they don't get Love. Minnesota MUST trade Love or get nothing for him, and then someone else WILL get him.

 

[MaxBuck]

This talk about Kevin Love being a top-10 NBA player ... it's wrong. He is, maybe, a top-20 player, no better than that. His defensive deficiencies prevent his being ranked any higher for the present.

Today on Sirius NBA Radio commentary was to the effect that he's no better than 4th or 5th among NBA power forwards. Better ones include David Lee, Tim Duncan (duh), and Anthony Davis; LaMarcus Aldridge, Dirk Nowitzki and Zach Randolph are in the same general category. If you call LeBron a 4 (he plays every position on the court at times), that's another. Kevin Durant, who's far better, is listed as a small forward, but really plays as a stretch 4.

Don't get me wrong, Love is a very, very good player, but he's not the transcendent talent he's being advertised as being. The idea of giving up Wiggins, Bennett and two firsts to get him is beyond ludicrous.

 

[y0yoyoin]

Today on Sirius NBA Radio commentary was to the effect that he's no better than 4th or 5th among NBA power forwards. Better ones include David Lee, Tim Duncan (duh), and Anthony Davis; LaMarcus Aldridge, Dirk Nowitzki and Zach Randolph are in the same general category. If you call LeBron a 4 (he plays every position on the court at times), that's another. Kevin Durant, who's far better, is listed as a small forward, but really plays as a stretch 4.

Tim Duncan right now is better then Love? no way...back in the day sure...not now...randolph better then love? no way either...kevin love is basically the same player except he can shoot 3's...I will give them davis, aldridge and dirk...but it all depends on what you are trying to get from a player on your team...davis can obviously block the shit out of anyone and rebound and put up decent offensive #'s...but he cant stretch the offense by hitting 3's...aldridge is great all around and can shoot consistently anywhere inside the 3 pt arc...nowitzki has a great all around game even at his age now I would still put him slightly ahead of love

 

[NorthCoastKid]

This talk about Kevin Love being a top-10 NBA player ... it's wrong. He is, maybe, a top-20 player, no better than that. His defensive deficiencies prevent his being ranked any higher for the present.

Today on Sirius NBA Radio commentary was to the effect that he's no better than 4th or 5th among NBA power forwards. Better ones include David Lee, Tim Duncan (duh), and Anthony Davis; LaMarcus Aldridge, Dirk Nowitzki and Zach Randolph are in the same general category. If you call LeBron a 4 (he plays every position on the court at times), that's another. Kevin Durant, who's far better, is listed as a small forward, but really plays as a stretch 4.

Don't get me wrong, Love is a very, very good player, but he's not the transcendent talent he's being advertised as being. The idea of giving up Wiggins, Bennett and two firsts to get him is beyond ludicrous.

 

[BuckeyeMafia]

I think the most important thing to consider is that Love can have 29 suitors outside of Minnesota. Without a verbal guarantee that he'll resign there, 28 of those offers aren't going to touch Waiters, Bennett, and a 1st round pick (or 2). Nobody wants to throw the everything and the kitchen sink at a guy who will only be there for a year unless he changes his mind (which is probably contingent on the team's win percentage next year). That pretty much removes all other Eastern Conference teams, especially with Love beings a West Coaster and the fact that the East sucks and nobody has any assets. While West Coast teams like Golden State and the Lakers may have a geographical edge, they don't have the rosters to pursue Love. Maybe Golden State is willing to give up Klay Thompson if Love commits to being there long-term, but that doesn't put him in a situation that's a whole lot better than the one he's currently in. Golden State could probably snatch a 7 or 8 seed and lose in 6 games to an upper-tier Western Conference team.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

ESPN's Stephen A. Smith earlier reported Love is making teams aware he only wants to be traded to Cleveland./QUOTE]

 

[y0yoyoin]

Good...give the cavs even more leverage...and if this is true, this is what kevin and his agent should of been doing from the beginning...give bennett/Waiters, the Utah haul and some first round picks and call it a day

 

[LordJeffBuck]

This makes no sense. You can flip this argument the other way. If Minnesota has the leverage, why is Andrew Wiggins still a Cleveland Cavalier?

Minnesota has the leverage because they are a "seller" with a unique item in a "market" with multiple "buyers". Until that changes, they can set the "price" - they have the leverage. Minnesota still has Kevin Love because the Cavs haven't met Minnesota's price. The Cavs still have Andrew Wiggins because the Cavs haven't met Minnesota's price. It's all about the price. As long as Minnesota can set the price - as long as they can reject a buyer's offer - Minnesota has the leverage.

You can certainly test this concept in the "real world". Find an art dealer who is selling a unique piece of art by a famous artist (say Picasso). Find out the dealer's best price. Then offer him fifty cents on the dollar. Then spend the next hour arguing with the dealer about why your "price" is right and his "price" is wrong. Use all the "leverage" that you've got. When the dealer finally kicks you out of his gallery, ask yourself why he still has his Picasso and you still have your money.

The leverage situation isn't clear cut, but Minnesota does NOT have the leverage. The Cavs can stand pat, and I'd actually be thrilled about it at this point. I love where this team is headed without the Love trade. The Celtics and others can stand pat as well. There is no change to their rosters if they don't get Love. Minnesota MUST trade Love or get nothing for him, and then someone else WILL get him.

Just because you're "thrilled" with your position, doesn't mean that you have the leverage. Don't confuse the two things.

As we both agree (I think), Minnesota loses their leverage after the trade deadline, because at that point there is no longer any "market" for Kevin Love (i.e., there can be no demand for him, or supply of him for that matter). But as the market approaches its "close", demand may increase, sometimes dramatically, which benefits the seller (look at trade deadline deals in baseball, or draft day deals in football, for examples of this). Minnesota is not losing their leverage until the trade deadline.

And regardless of what happens, Minnesota will never be in the position where they MUST trade Kevin Love. As OH1O said above, Minnesota may be perfectly happy to let Kevin Love go in free agency. In the world of the NBA, sometimes it is better to get nothing for a player than to get too little (because of the draft lottery, it is better to be bad than to be mediocre).

I love where this team is headed without the Love trade.

Cleveland teams have been "headed" various places for the past fifty years. I'm sick of the journey - now I want to be THERE. No more "maybe next year". No more "five-year plans". No more banking on prospects. The Cavs have a monumental opportunity - don't blow it by playing for the future. The future is NOW. Get it done.

 

[exhawg]

Good...give the cavs even more leverage...and if this is true, this is what kevin and his agent should of been doing from the beginning...give bennett/Waiters, the Utah haul and some first round picks and call it a day

If Love wants to win multiple titles and play with Lebron it's in his best interest to get the Cavs to give up as little as possible to trade for him. A team with Kyrie, Lebron, Love, and Wiggins is built to win for the next 5-8 years as long as Gilbert doesn't mind paying triple the salary cap every season in around 4 years. It sounds like there is no love loss between Love and the Wolves so he probably isn't interested in helping them get a good deal. IMO Waiters, Bennett, and a couple picks is fair for the 1 year rental of Love, which is better than anyone else will give the Wolves.