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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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y0yoyoin said:
Even without Rose I still like Chicago becase of how well they are defensively and now they are replacing boozer for gasol which is an upgrade...I think Charlotte and Washington will be good but I am not ready to put them ahead of the Cavs...Indiana has fallen off a little as well but I would put them right with the cavs...Here is my top 5 order

1. Chicago
2. Indiana
3. Cleveland
4. Washington
5. Charlotte
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I'll maybe give you the Bulls, no way Indy is better than the Cavs
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
Why does everyone rank Chicago so highly in the East, hell I even heard this on NBA radio today, everyone was in agreement "they play defense". So Cleveland's answer to get out of the east is trade a guy who can guard multiple positions, is long and athletic, considered by most scouts - already able to defense well in the NBA, for a purely offensive guy. Even the guy on the XM NBA channel was saying "Even with Love, I like Chicago better because they play defense".

I understand all the do anything to get Love, but Love salary combined with LBJ & Irving would handcuff the team into trying to build a bench... the best they could hope to be is Miami on Lake Erie. If Lebron is truly committed long term and tells other Free Agents that... that automatically makes Cleveland a premier destination. For all those in the trade for Love including Wiggins. What defenders do we add to our bench? What moves does Cleveland make to add the talent to get them over the edge.. We saw in the final, it takes more than a Big 3 to win.

My personal preference is to go into the season and see what happens. If I'm trading picks, no way I give them more than 1 first round pick.

Just as a point of reference it was made known that Griffin and Gilbert laid out their plan to add talent to Lebron in their pitch, so I gotta think if they were going to offer Wiggins it woulda happened by now.
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The reason people rank Chicago so high is without Rose last year they were still pretty good. And yes they incorrectly assume Rose will be healthy, but if Rose plays decent they are a very strong team that matches up well with the Cavs. Ie their front court strength matches up with our weak PF/C positions. That is the only team I really am afraid of in the east.

And don't buy the Cavs being handcuffed by the salary cap like Miami was. The big difference is ownership. Miami's owner is cheap, wasn't willing to pay luxary tax to keep players that helped them. That won't happen in Cleveland. In addition, Miami gave up ALL of their draft picks to get Bosh/LeBron, so they had no way to bring in young players.

So when you add in an owner willing to spend whatever it takes, it gives us more options to add bench players. I have said this before, but the Haywood contract is HUGE next season. Next offseason we have a chance to add $10 million plus in salaries next season via a trade. You can use that as a sign and trade chip to get one major player, or use it to get 2-3 role players to fill up your bench. Then throw in having most of our draft picks as well. While a Kevin Love trade gets rid of some, I doubt we end up giving more than 2 1st rounders. So at worst we still have our own first round picks. Then throw in the fact with an owner willing to spend over the cap, we can still buy first rounders like we have done in the past. So you can still bring in young bench players to provide certain roles on the team (and or become trade chips to get a vet from another team.
 
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What about adding other really good options in Free Agency instead of Love? Bledsoe and Monroe are really good options in my opinion. Bledsoe can do it all and allow Kyrie maybe to move over to a 2 guard position or Monroe to bolster the inside. A heck of a lot cheaper than Love would be and they keep most of their young talent on board as well.

More and more I'm leaning away from mortgaging the future for Love. It would be great to have him but not for everything the Twolves want.
 
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Piney said:
The reason people rank Chicago so high is without Rose last year they were still pretty good. And yes they incorrectly assume Rose will be healthy, but if Rose plays decent they are a very strong team that matches up well with the Cavs. Ie their front court strength matches up with our weak PF/C positions. That is the only team I really am afraid of in the east.

And don't buy the Cavs being handcuffed by the salary cap like Miami was. The big difference is ownership. Miami's owner is cheap, wasn't willing to pay luxary tax to keep players that helped them. That won't happen in Cleveland. In addition, Miami gave up ALL of their draft picks to get Bosh/LeBron, so they had no way to bring in young players.

So when you add in an owner willing to spend whatever it takes, it gives us more options to add bench players. I have said this before, but the Haywood contract is HUGE next season. Next offseason we have a chance to add $10 million plus in salaries next season via a trade. You can use that as a sign and trade chip to get one major player, or use it to get 2-3 role players to fill up your bench. Then throw in having most of our draft picks as well. While a Kevin Love trade gets rid of some, I doubt we end up giving more than 2 1st rounders. So at worst we still have our own first round picks. Then throw in the fact with an owner willing to spend over the cap, we can still buy first rounders like we have done in the past. So you can still bring in young bench players to provide certain roles on the team (and or become trade chips to get a vet from another team.
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The biggest difference between the Cavs and the Heat is that the Cavs are stocked with good young players. The Heat pretty much had nothing 4 years ago so they filled in their bench with over the hill guys that didn't have much left in the tank. Between being at the bottom of the draft and throwing 4 first rounders to the Cavs and Raptors they were never able to add any good young talent. Adding Lebron to 5 high first round pick is a much better starting point.

The main reason I'm against trading Wiggins is 5 years from now when Lebron spends most of the game at PF and won't be able to guard anyone on the floor. The Cavs will need the shutdown defender/explosive offensive player that Wiggins will be. Even if Wiggins never becomes a great shooter Irving an Lebron are/will be so all Wiggins HAS to be is a havoc causer on both ends of the floor. Everything I've heard says he will at least be that. Trading Wiggins for Love makes the Cavs more of a title contender the next couple years, but they will want Wiggins for the next decade after that.
 
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exhawg said:
The biggest difference between the Cavs and the Heat is that the Cavs are stocked with good young players. The Heat pretty much had nothing 4 years ago so they filled in their bench with over the hill guys that didn't have much left in the tank. Between being at the bottom of the draft and throwing 4 first rounders to the Cavs and Raptors they were never able to add any good young talent. Adding Lebron to 5 high first round pick is a much better starting point.

The main reason I'm against trading Wiggins is 5 years from now when Lebron spends most of the game at PF and won't be able to guard anyone on the floor. The Cavs will need the shutdown defender/explosive offensive player that Wiggins will be. Even if Wiggins never becomes a great shooter Irving an Lebron are/will be so all Wiggins HAS to be is a havoc causer on both ends of the floor. Everything I've heard says he will at least be that. Trading Wiggins for Love makes the Cavs more of a title contender the next couple years, but they will want Wiggins for the next decade after that.
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The Cavs have the best player in the game (LeBron), one of the best young players in the game (Kyrie), and they have the assets to acquire another top-ten player (Love). And the fans still want to play the "wait until next year" game.

Unreal.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
The Cavs have the best player in the game (LeBron), one of the best young players in the game (Kyrie), and they have the assets to acquire another top-ten player (Love). And the fans still want to play the "wait until next year" game.
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They also have two other #1 picks--one on board and one we're about to sign. They also have a new head coach who seems able to coach-up anyone.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
The Cavs have the best player in the game (LeBron), one of the best young players in the game (Kyrie), and they have the assets to acquire another top-ten player (Love). And the fans still want to play the "wait until next year" game.

Unreal.
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Honestly if a lot of the what if's go in the Cavs favor I could see them challenging for the title this year with or without Love. With Love they hit the peak of their prime in the next 2 years. Without Love the peak will be in 4 or 5 years and last 5 or so years longer. Regardless of any moves made they have as good of a shot as anyone to get to the Finals this season.
 
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I really like Wiggins and I have hopes for Bennett.. but I have read so many times.. from folks in the know.. they profess
bet on players that have already proven themselves in the NBA over can't miss 1st round draftees and draft choices
so I'll be happy either way.. wait till you guys see Mark Price shoot
 
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OH10 said:
Kyrie doesn't play defense. Love doesn't play defense. Varajao cannot move around like he used to.

So, if this trade goes through, good luck on that end of the floor Lebron because it's all you.
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and by keep wiggins we are now a completely better team defensively? one guy changes that? a guy who hasnt played one NBA game ever?
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
The Cavs have the best player in the game (LeBron), one of the best young players in the game (Kyrie), and they have the assets to acquire another top-ten player (Love). And the fans still want to play the "wait until next year" game.

Unreal.
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LJB - honest question here, you've been by far the most vocal of get Love at all cost...

How does adding Love to the current roster make us any better than the Miami team from the past several years? Yes, the other than the "other" Big 2 are younger but haven't been to the playoffs. You've still got a team where Lebron is the only guy who plays defense. The bench is still a huge question mark.

Who does Cleveland add going forward if you've got Irving, James, Love eating up a sizable portion of the cap.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
LJB - honest question here, you've been by far the most vocal of get Love at all cost...
How does adding Love to the current roster make us any better than the Miami team from the past several years? Yes, the other than the "other" Big 2 are younger but haven't been to the playoffs. You've still got a team where Lebron is the only guy who plays defense. The bench is still a huge question mark.

Who does Cleveland add going forward if you've got Irving, James, Love eating up a sizable portion of the cap.
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This is exactly it. Irving isn't close to Wade's level 2-3 years ago. Love will be better on offense than Bosh was, but he won't be nearly as good defensively. The Heat didn't have any trouble scoring in the Finals this year, even with D-Wade's corpse and no point guard. Their problem was the inability to stop San Antonio, and I still don't know how anyone sees Cleveland doing that with or without Kevin Love. I think the best course of action is to grow this roster from where it's at now, because until the Spurs stop winning the Western Conference I don't know how anyone could beat them. The Cavs need OKC, the Clippers, or someone else to win the West. In which case they'd have a great chance to win a title, and in my opinion, with or without Love.
 
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San Antonio is a fantastic team. But, aside from Kawhi Leonard, that roster...or at least the core pieces, are OLD. They may have another year in them, but Parker/Duncan/Ginobli are going to hit the wall hard sooner rather than later.
 
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