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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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buckeyesin07 said:
I wouldn't build a franchise around Love--he has been in the league for 6 years now and his team was all of two games above .500 last season. I'm not building my franchise around that. Love is a good player but he's a rung down from the true franchise players. He's a younger Chris Bosh.
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he plays in the west and has had a terrible supporting cast with him...since hes has been on that team the best picks that team has made have been rubio and pekovic...they traded oj mayo, ty lawson and derek williams...the fact they have not been the worst team in the west every single year is because he has carried the team by himself
 
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Much like the word "great" often does, I think "franchise player" gets thrown around a little too easily. Like I've said a number of times-- IMO, Love's numbers are inflated by playing on some really crappy teams. On top of that, he doesn't just kind of stink on D, he's really bad. And on a team full of suspect defenders, I'm not sure that's the best move.

If they can get him without giving up Wiggins, great. If not, ehhhhhhh...
 
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It frustrates me to no end that teams (Cleveland, Miami) continue to let LeBron play GM. LeBron also wanted Shabazz Napier, and he can't even play in the Summer League. The Cavs could almost definitely have had Love for Bennett (who is going to improve his game and become an actual trade piece), Waiters, and picks. The Timberwolves owner said TODAY that he wanted to keep Love. The ball shifted to the Cavs court for all of an hour before these reports starting coming out, and now Minnesota is in control again. We could've started the season allowing time to see how Wiggins/the team are working out, and make a decision from there. Even Flip Saunders is smart enough to see that this opportunity won't be on the table forever, and now that the word is out that the Cavs are willing to part with Wiggins, they're about to get screwed.

y0yoyoin said:
I dont understand how wiggins for love is way too much...i hope you mean its way too much for Minnesota to be giving up a franchise player like KLove for Wiggins...if you have watched any of the NBA summer league of Wiggins (besides the highlights), then you will know that we may not make it out of the 2nd round this year without making this trade for love...He is great on defense (against summer league players), but offensively he has a long way to go...We absolutely have to win now....we cannot wait for Wiggins to get better while LeBron gets older...we cannot and i hope, will not make that mistake again...the only thing for me that makes this trade somewhat of a no brainer is the fact that Love can walk after this year...that is it...I trade Wiggins, Bennett or waiters, and a #1 pick next year right now for Love...no questions asked
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You don't win playoff games with offense. Check to see where the Clippers finished last year and get back to me. You also don't win playoff games with defense and a stagnant offense, like OKC. There is a balance to be met. The Cavs with Love become the Eastern Conference Clippers. A lot of shooters, a lot of skill, but not a lot of defense. When LeBron whines that he's exhausted from having to guard the other team's best player every night, I don't want to hear it. The Cavs were dealt a winning hand and couldn't keep their poker face. Most of that is LeBron's fault for putting pressure on the front office. Love is a great piece, but he's not a great piece when you give up a guy who could be the best player in the league in 5 years.

y0yoyoin said:
so to be a franchise player you have to play defense? to me a franchise player is someone you build a franchise around...hence the term franchise....steph curry i would consider a franchise player...doesnt play great defense...kyrie irving? same...Kevin Durant, lebron, chris paul, kevin love, derek rose...all players i consider franchise players
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Love and Irving are NOT franchise players. Curry is close, but no, still not a franchise player. I think a franchise player is a guy who can get you to the playoffs on their back. Love has not done that and Irving certainly hasn't, even in the Eastern Conference.
 
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MaxBuck said:
Well, if he joins the Cavs he won't be a franchise player.

He might be an NBA champion, though, which would be nice.
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I agree - he would definitely be a complimentary piece to the Cavs. Having a 4 able to hit jumpers (ala Bosh) would help free up the lane for LeBalding and Irving, etc.

Let's not act like Kevin Love is anything more than an extremely offensive-minded Kevin McHale (if he's even that good). The stats prove it out.
 
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y0yoyoin said:
so to be a franchise player you have to play defense? to me a franchise player is someone you build a franchise around...hence the term franchise....steph curry i would consider a franchise player...doesnt play great defense...kyrie irving? same...Kevin Durant, lebron, chris paul, kevin love, derek rose...all players i consider franchise players
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in a word - Yes.

What made Jordan, Bird and Magic so great? Or Olajuwon? How about Ewing and David Robinson? Tim Duncan? All of those guys play defense. Even Durant's suspect defense has improved. Love is going the other direction entirely.

Oh and LeBrick, Chris Paul and Derek Rose (when healthy) all play their ass off on defense.

He's the best player on a bad team. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
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No way I trade Wiggins for Love right now. The Wolves don't have any other takers right now so I wait them out and see what the Cavs look like with their current players. Love's value will only go down the closer we get to the deadline when the Wolves realize they will lose him for nothing. Worst case scenario the Cavs still have the best package to offer the Wolves if they end up having to pull the trigger. If Blatt is able to do with the Cavs what he has everywhere else in his career it might be more valuable to have Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters than Love.

I think Griffin is a smart GM so I would be surprised if he gives up Wiggins right now.
 
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I really hope the rumor the Cavs are willing to trade Wiggins is untrue. Not that I don't want to trade Wiggins for Love, but because of bargaining power. You keep telling the T-Wolves that Wiggins isn't possible. Make THEM sweat out Love's impending departure and make their price go down. Look at all the other superstar forcing themselves out of their current team and they NEVER get true value and NEVER get a young stud like Wiggins in return. Why start now?

Now when push comes to shove, I would be willing to trade Wiggins, but that should be the last thing and maybe to get something else out of Minnesota (like forcing Minnesota to give us Dieng as an extra sweetner to get Wiggins, which would finally give the Cavs a rim protector) or forgoing any 1st round picks as part of the deal.

The beauty is we have time on our side. And this is going to be insane for months on end becaues nothing is going to happen til October at the earliest and Jan/Feb at the latest.
 
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I also don't see any reason Cleveland should let Wiggins go right now unless it's a great deal for us. Our mistake is allowing Minn to see that we desperately need Love. W/o Love this team this year is still a 55-60 win team easily. Heck we won 66 games without a lot less an arguably a lesser LeBron.

I just have this overwhelming feeling like we are going to do something dumb and give up far too much. My hope is that Love basically strong arms Twolves and says "Listen, I want to go to Cleveland, I will not re-sign or opt-in with anyone else" and make sure the Cavs don't give more than Wiggins, Bennett or TT and a pick or two.

As bloodthirsty as well all are for a ring, we can't sacrifice the next 10 years of the Cavs to increase our odds for one to two seasons.

I will be fine with us getting Love for Wiggins or not, definitely hoping we can for less than Wiggins though. This is from someone who honestly wasn't nearly as high on Wiggins and wanted Embiid pre-injury.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
If we keep Wiggins or trade him for Love, either way I'm happy and I don't think you can go wrong either way so long as we don't do something stupid like a Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett/First rounder type trade.
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I'm in this boat...we can argue all day about keeping or trading wiggins and I can see both sides...i would prefer to trade wiggins now instead of banking on what he could potentially be in the future...If lebron signed a 5 year deal my opinion would be different...regardless of what he says about being here for the long haul, things can drastically change in 2 years...we should try to make the team as good as possible right now is my opinion
 
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