• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
Wiggins vs. Love isn't a simple 'win now' vs. 'win later' proposition. Wiggins already RIGHT NOW gives you more on the defensive end than Kevin Love. It's his offensive game that needs some work, but that will get markedly better playing with guys like Lebron and Kyrie.

KLove puts up about 25 points/game with Minnesota, a mediocre team with limited offensive weapons. He's not doing that in Cleveland with Lebron and Kyrie. So you have to adjust his value accordingly. He plays below average defense. He's a great rebounder and passer; can stretch the floor on offense. But he'll only average 15-20 points with the current Cavs roster. Is that worth giving up what Wiggins gives you on defense RIGHT NOW and the unlimited offensive potential he has in the future? I don't think so.

Let's play it out and see. If we don't get KLove, it's not the end of the world. Still a bright future.
 
Upvote 0
exhawg said:
Is there any chance Bennett improves enough over the first half the season to not want to make a move? Waiters is really the only one that has to move unless his becomes ok with being the 3rd guard.
Click to expand...

One of the big problems the Cavs had in the 1st Lebron Era was offensive stagnation when Lebron wasn't on the court. I remember our best bench offensive weapon being Delonte West. That hurt us badly in the 2008 series against Orlando.

From that standpoint, guys like Bennett and Waiters can be extremely important pieces. We need them to hold the fort down during those times, especially in the regular season to get Lebron the rest he needs.

I would still trade both of them (in a nano-second) for Kevin Love, but they can serve championship-level importance to this team if the deal isn't worked out.
 
Upvote 0
Yeah, not a simple win now vs win later proposition. It isn't like Love is 32, he is 25! So with Love you can win now AND later.

To me it is value and position proposition. In the history of trades like this, the team getting the fleeing superstar hasn't had to give up a young potential stud. While they have given them young players... Waiters and Bennett fit that mold better in a historical sense.

On the other end, it is also a 'team fit' issue. Love fits a big position of need. We need a big that can rebound and fit offensively. Love does that in spades. Will he average 25 here? No, his average will go down to the 17-19 range because his shots will go down and the reliance of him as an offensive weapon will be lessened.

Also, Wiggins fits this team very well too. Wiggins is the perfect SG to run with Kyrie and LeBron. He doesn't need the ball in his hand, ie he won't need to initiate offense. His offense will come off cuts and screens with Kyrie and LeBron feeding him the ball. Waiters needs the ball in his hands too much, so he will be tougher to match with Kyrie and LeBron than Wiggins. Let alone Wiggins defensive potential as a guy that can give LeBron a lighter defensive load.

SO this means this just sucks. A Kyrie, Wiggins, LeBron, Love starting lineup does SOOOOOO much within a team concept.

So it comes down to a Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, Love lineup better than a Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, Bennett lineup with Wiggins coming off the bench? and the bonus of a smallball lineup of Kyrie, Waiters, Wiggins, LeBron showtime offense?

And you can tell how HARD this decision is in all the article that are popping up of NBA writers asking GMs around the league about this. It is running a 60/40 type split to keep Wiggins vs trading him.

The good thing about this is the unknown of leverage in this situation. Love has Minnesota bent over a barrell. Minnesota will eventually give in or cut off their nose to spite their face. Unfortunately it is offset by the amount of teams that want Love and what packages they can offer. Wiggins is the trump card in this situation, the hope is we don't need to use that trump card.
 
Upvote 0
OH10 said:
One of the big problems the Cavs had in the 1st Lebron Era was offensive stagnation when Lebron wasn't on the court. I remember our best bench offensive weapon being Delonte West. That hurt us badly in the 2008 series against Orlando.

From that standpoint, guys like Bennett and Waiters can be extremely important pieces. We need them to hold the fort down during those times, especially in the regular season to get Lebron the rest he needs.

I would still trade both of them (in a nano-second) for Kevin Love, but they can serve championship-level importance to this team if the deal isn't worked out.
Click to expand...

It didn't help we had a horrible offensive coach. I trust Blatt to at least have a decent to above average offensive gameplan.

Bennett can be a decent Love substitute, but he is still largely an unknown. I would be happy if he can average 8-10 pts along with 6-7 rebounds.

And really, I think Wiggins comes off the bench to start to appease Waiter's ego. But Wiggins might get more minutes than him. Maybe LeBron can knock some sense into him about becoming the 6th man of the year type. Cuz even with Wiggins around, Waiters will get alot of minutes.
 
Upvote 0
Following up on @Piney post.. here is what that roster/cap situation would look like
James $21,050,000
Kyrie Irving $7,459,924
Wiggins $4,592,200
Anderson Varejao $9,800,000
Matthew Dellavedova $816,482
Carrick Felix $816,482
Brendan Haywood $2,000,000
Joe Harris x
Dwight Powell x
Love $15,719,062
Tristan Thompson $5,421,233
Ray Allen $2,750,000
Mike Miller $2,750,000
TOTALS: $73,175,383

so it still needs work...not a luxury tax guru so don't know if you are allowed to get to this situation unless signing your own FA gets you over the top
I have little doubt Gilbert would be willing to pay this luxury tax
BTW this roster is just marginally more expensive next yr.. only another $3M
 
Upvote 0
Piney said:
And really, I think Wiggins comes off the bench to start to appease Waiter's ego. But Wiggins might get more minutes than him. Maybe LeBron can knock some sense into him about becoming the 6th man of the year type. Cuz even with Wiggins around, Waiters will get alot of minutes.
Click to expand...
From what I understand of Blatt, he isn't into appeasing egos...
 
Upvote 0
All the egos are going to face a pretty daunting 6'8 260 pounder who is known as the best on the planet.. so all those egos can be checked at the door or on the bench.. they aren't going to happen.. that's a great beauty of adding James... he also brings the fix to the locker room issues
 
Upvote 0
Piney said:
It didn't help we had a horrible offensive coach. I trust Blatt to at least have a decent to above average offensive gameplan.

Bennett can be a decent Love substitute, but he is still largely an unknown. I would be happy if he can average 8-10 pts along with 6-7 rebounds.

And really, I think Wiggins comes off the bench to start to appease Waiter's ego. But Wiggins might get more minutes than him. Maybe LeBron can knock some sense into him about becoming the 6th man of the year type. Cuz even with Wiggins around, Waiters will get alot of minutes.
Click to expand...

Waiters is capable of being the pg when Irving isn't on the floor. I would have no problem going into the season with the current roster with the exception of adding a center. Thompson is able to play C in a smaller lineup. This would be my minute breakdown.

Irving 35
Wiggins 30
Lebron 35
Thompson 30
Andy 25
Bennett 25
Waiters 25
Miller 15
Haywood or other C 10-15
 
Upvote 0
Waiters has one value, scoring. He does little else. LeBron is an elite scorer, Kyrie is a very good scorer. If Wiggins can be just above average (12-15 ppg), Waiters has little value here. Add in the reported attitude issues, and he's somebody that should be moved to sure up other areas.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top