Cleveland Browns (2018 Season The NFL is Sorry)

[tsteele316]

Well, of course not all 4 are going to have the same level of success and at least one will be a bust, but I really don't see hardly any gap. And neither do a lot of the analysts, I have regularly saw all 3 of Rosen, Darnold and Allen be listed as the top QB in the draft after the regular season was over. One of those will be there at 4. I can see the argument that if internally you see a guy that is head and shoulders above, you take him at 1. If you feel like I feel, you think there is a lot to like about all of them and will end up very happy at #4. Again, if there was no pick at #4, then I say you absolutely take a QB with the top pick.

If you're paying attention at all, you'd be seeing two names climbing to the top of the QB pecking order.

Also, the very premise that any NFL team would not have any QB preference so as to be content to take the QB leftovers is flawed from the start.

Considering that there is a good chance that qbs go 1-3, bypassing having your choice at QB to take a position player at 4 is even more ridiculous.

 

[AKAK]

Well, of course not all 4 are going to have the same level of success and at least one will be a bust, but I really don't see hardly any gap. And neither do a lot of the analysts, I have regularly saw all 3 of Rosen, Darnold and Allen be listed as the top QB in the draft after the regular season was over. One of those will be there at 4. I can see the argument that if internally you see a guy that is head and shoulders above, you take him at 1. If you feel like I feel, you think there is a lot to like about all of them and will end up very happy at #4. Again, if there was no pick at #4, then I say you absolutely take a QB with the top pick.

Not that it was ever a.good.idea to get cute about it... But once the Jets slid into the 3 and the Bills positioned themselves to be able to make the move to 2, it pretty much took the guess work out of how to do this.

 

[Mike80]

That and Barkley isn't as good as the talking heads are playing him up to be. The only certainty in this draft is that 3 of the 4 QB's are going to be all stars. The one that isn't will be the one the Browns draft. Doesn't matter which one that is.

 

[kujirakira]

DENZEL WARD AND 11 OTHER BUCKEYES WORK OUT FOR CLEVELAND BROWNS

The Cleveland Browns last drafted a former Ohio State Buckeye in 2009, when the franchise selected wide receiver Brian Robiskie in the second round. Ohio State has won a lot of games since then. The Browns, well, haven't....

Monday, the Browns hosted Denzel Ward and 11 other Buckeyes for a private workout.

The full list:

• Cornerback Denzel Ward
• Defensive lineman Jalyn Holmes
• Tight end Marcus Baugh
• Linebacker Chris Worley
• Defensive tackle Tracy Sprinkle
• Defensive tackle Michael Hill
• Safety Damon Webb
• Safety Erick Smith
• Wide receiver / special teams ace Elijaah Goins
• Linebacker Zach Turnure
• Cornerback Trevon Forte
• Defensive lineman Nick Seme

The Browns hold nine picks in the 2018 draft, with five in the first two rounds.

Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...-other-buckeyes-work-out-for-cleveland-browns

#FakeNews
Pretty sure this never happened.

 

[kujirakira]

My thinking is that if there was some super obvious #1 QB (a Luck, Newton, Stafford,, Manning, etc.), or the Browns didn't have another pick at #4, I would get the "you have to take a QB at #1" position. But I see there being 3, potentially 4 "#1 QB's" in Darnold, Rosen, Allen and Mayfield. Each has upside and downside, but I just don't see a big difference in the boom or bust with those 4 personally. And with a pick at #4, at least two of those guys will be there still. On the other hand, I see Barkley as far and above the best RB in the draft that is also capable of flexing out regularly to catch the ball. I think he is the best/most exciting player in the draft and I think that is what you take if you are in Cleveland's position at #1.

Personally, I think Rosen is the best QB in the draft but also agree it is not a good idea for Cleveland to take him and it won't happen (unless maybe at #4 to trade him to a team desperate for a QB). And I think Rosen will go #2 or #3 to a NY team, so no worries there. Then likely Darnold but either way, two of Darnold/Mayfield/Allen will likely be available at #4 if the Browns go another position at #1 imo.

Realistically speaking, there's only 2. Darnold and Rosen. And guaranteed neither is available at 4. It's not like there's a truly elite #1 position either (Chubb is closest, Barkley is media hype fools gold, Fitz is a reach for me). So you lose nothing by doing all your research and taking the QB you believe is best at #1... will still probably get the best position player at #4 b/c teams are so desperate this year.
Mayfield and Allen aren't elite prospects for very different reasons. Much as I hate Mayfield, I think it's unfair to pin Johnny on him - he's an asshole, but he's a competitive asshole. The knock is his size. Drew Brees is the only dude like that... and he's no Drew Brees.
Allen may actually have the most upside, but needs to sit for a minimum of 2 years behind a skilled and consistent coaching staff. If teams weren't so desperate, he'd be a mid-to-late 1st round pick.

 

[RB07OSU]

Realistically speaking, there's only 2. Darnold and Rosen. And guaranteed neither is available at 4. It's not like there's a truly elite #1 position either (Chubb is closest, Barkley is media hype fools gold, Fitz is a reach for me). So you lose nothing by doing all your research and taking the QB you believe is best at #1... will still probably get the best position player at #4 b/c teams are so desperate this year.
Mayfield and Allen aren't elite prospects for very different reasons. Much as I hate Mayfield, I think it's unfair to pin Johnny on him - he's an asshole, but he's a competitive asshole. The knock is his size. Drew Brees is the only dude like that... and he's no Drew Brees.
Allen may actually have the most upside, but needs to sit for a minimum of 2 years behind a skilled and consistent coaching staff. If teams weren't so desperate, he'd be a mid-to-late 1st round pick.

I guess I will start in reverse order. Fully agreed on Allen, I think the best landing spot for him would be Denver where he can sit for at least a year behind Keenum. But he would likely get eaten alive if he were to go to Cleveland. And I also hate Mayfield and think he is a cocky douche, but why the knock on size? He's between 6'1 and 6'2...Brees is about 5'11. Frankly I think he would fit well in Cleveland if you put Barkley at #1 with him in the backfield.

And on Barkley, it really blows my mind that the posters on here think he is all hype. It's not like he just blew up the combine out of nowhere, he put up big stats and huge plays at the highest level of competition. Sure, his production slowed down late last year when teams keyed on him 100% (including us after the 1st quarter)...but they won't be able to do that in the NFL. He's an unbelievable player and I think in terms of just pure talent and ability, the best player in the draft other than maybe Chubb...I can put my PSU hatred aside and see that.

As for Darnold and Rosen, I can see some gap between Rosen and the rest...I think he has the best tools out of all the QB's if his mind is in it. He can be great. But I just watched enough of Darnold last year to know I would not want my team to draft him in the top 5.

 

[Buckeneye]

He's between 6'1 and 6'2...Brees is about 5'11.

That's where the comparison ends. They're both about 6'1 in cleats tops. Breesy and Wilson are exceptions, not rules.

Frankly I think he would fit well in Cleveland if you put Barkley at #1 with him in the backfield.

Why is that? He has shown no high level traits from standing in the pocket and making his progressions - look no further then the half dozen times he was locking in on receivers during the senior bowl. Mayfields mobility will account for very little in the NFL.

And on Barkley, it really blows my mind that the posters on here think he is all hype. It's not like he just blew up the combine out of nowhere, he put up big stats and huge plays at the highest level of competition.

So did Trent Richardson. Meanwhile, I see a RB that lacks patience and power on the interior running game, tries to sprint to the 2nd level far too fast, is unwilling to generate contact to get tough yards if the homerun isn't there and tends to rush for only what is blocked. Check out the YAC and carries for no gain or loss. Was it @LordJeffBuck who pointed out that when Penn State needed a tough yard, they went to McSorely...? Reggie Bush mentality minus the elite speed.

Sure, his production slowed down late last year when teams keyed on him 100% (including us after the 1st quarter)...but they won't be able to do that in the NFL.

Suggesting the Browns take Mayfield and Barkley... then say defenses 'won't' key on the RB? Sure....

He's an unbelievable player and I think in terms of just pure talent and ability, the best player in the draft other than maybe Chubb...I can put my PSU hatred aside and see that.

I hate *ichigan but I think Hurst will make a good 3 tech. PSU hate isn't coloring my glasses here.

 

[Buckeye513]

The height thing with Mayfield is way overblown. Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Jimmy Garoppolo are all of an inch taller. So is Aaron Rodgers. Tyrod Taylor and Case Keenum are the same size. It's entirely possible to exist in the league without being 6'5.

If he's going to suck it's because he won't be able to translate his skills in the OU system to the NFL. Won't be able to dance his ass around the backfield then throw to a wide open receiver 30 yards down the sideline very often.

 

[exhawg]

The height thing with Mayfield is way overblown. Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Jimmy Garoppolo are all of an inch taller. So is Aaron Rodgers. Tyrod Taylor and Case Keenum are the same size. It's entirely possible to exist in the league without being 6'5.

If he's going to suck it's because he won't be able to translate his skills in the OU system to the NFL. Won't be able to dance his ass around the backfield then throw to a wide open receiver 30 yards down the sideline very often.

Also none of those guys were top 5 picks. Short QB's can do well, but usually because they get drafted lower into good situations. Maybe I'm completely crazy, but I feel if you had Mayfield, Garoppolo and Rodgers stand next to each other w/o shoes there is going to be more than an inch difference. I have no basis of reference on that claim, just a gut feeling. I played against Brees in college and he's a midget.

I feel the top end offensive talent in this draft is lacking. I don't see any game breakers in the top 10. I like pairing Chubb with Garrett and see if they can cause some havoc on that side of the ball.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Check out the YAC and carries for no gain or loss. Was it @LordJeffBuck who pointed out that when Penn State needed a tough yard, they went to McSorely...? Reggie Bush mentality minus the elite speed.

Barkley's carries in the 4th quarter:

-7
6
-3
-7
-2
5

For a total of 6 carries, -8 yards

@LordJeffBuck posted earlier in this thread Barkley's carries in the fourth quarter, where he rushed for -8 yards on 6 carries. I decided to go through the play-by-play and list each of his 21 carries:

1st Qtr
-4

2nd Qtr
3
36 (TD)
2
4
4
2

3rd Qtr
-3
2
4
4
-1
-5
8
-4

4th Qtr
-7
6
-3
-7
-2
5

His last 10 carries of the game went for a grand total of -10 yards. Fuck his 97 KO TD and his 36-yard TD run...the Heisman trophy winner doesn't go for -10 yards in his last 10 carries, and for -3 yards in all 14 second-half carries, of his team's biggest game of the year, and in fact possibly the biggest game in college football so far.

Barkley has always been a swing for the fences type of player - lots of home runs, lots of strike outs. Usually he is Aaron Judge. Last night he was more like Rob Deer - a couple of huge plays and a whole lot of mediocre-to-bad ones. For the final 2/3 of the game, his impact was generally negative for Penn State, and he literally got worse as the game went on. Not a Heisman-worthy performance at all.

Here is what I said about Barkley after the Penn State game, with my comments being amplified by @MililaniBuckeye

I just went back and looked at the stats, and Penn State had only five plays in "short yardage" situations (2nd down or 3rd down with 3 or less yards to go):

3:39 of 2Q, 3rd-and-1: Barkley rushes for +4 yards
8:31 of 3Q, 3rd-and-3: Barkley rushes for +4 yards
1:14 of 3Q, 2nd-and-2: Incomplete pass
1:11 of 3Q, 3rd-and-2: Barkley runs for -4 yards (NOTE: At this point, Penn State was up 35-20 and a first down might have broken Ohio State)
6:34 of 4Q, 3rd-and-3: Barkley runs for -4 yards (NOTE: This was 3rd-and-goal from the 3-yard line with Penn State leading 35-27; a TD pretty much ices the game)

Again, Barkley got worse as the game went on. Penn State probably should have relied on McSorley in those late-game short yardage situations.

A further note on the 3rd-and-2 run by Barkley for -4 yards: He went down on first contact from a safety (Jordan Fuller) whom he outweighed by 30+ pounds. If he breaks that tackle, then he probably gets the first down as the Buckeyes' containment wasn't exactly ideal on that play. A perfect example of Barkley dancing when he should have been running with power.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

It wasn't just against Ohio State.... I kept a running commentary about Barkley's disappearance as well which is reproduced here, in relevant part:

Against Akron - a 52-0 blow out - he did not register any carries, receptions or returns. I am sure he was not on the field at all at that point
Against Pitt - Barkley had 2 carries for zero yards (-5, 5), 2 Receptions for -1 yard (3, -4) and KO returns of 18 and 32 yards
Against Georgia State - another laugher at 56-0 - Barkley recorded no fourth quarter statistics from his spot on the bench
In the 21-19 win over Iowa, Barkley had 7 carries for 28 yards (0, 9, 0, 7, 1, 4, 7) 5 receptions for 47 yards (10, 15, 0, 8, 14) and a 11 yard return
In the 45-14 win against Indiana Barkley carried 4 times for 15 yards (8, 3, 4, 0) was targeted twice in the passing game resulting in 1 reception for 9 yards and had no return yards
Against Northwestern (win, 31-7) Barkley ran twice for 17 yards (5, 12) and was targeted once but the pass was incomplete. He had no return yards, but was pulled from the game after the first series in the 4th up 31-0
Against the hapless scUM vulvarines, Barkley had one carry for -3 and 1 reception for 42 yards and a score. He was pulled for the last series and did not have any return yards
And, again, against Ohio State Barkley ran for -8 yards on 6 carries (-7, 6, -3, -7, -2, 5), 2 targets in the pass game for 1 rec and no yards along with 8 return yards
Against Sparty (Loss 24-27) Barkley ran the ball 3 times for 13 yards (4, 4, 5). He was not targeted in the passing game nor did he return a kick. Crunch time in a tight game... disappeared.
Against Rutgers (Win 35-6) Barkley ran 4 times for 19 yards (7, 3, 2, 7). He was not targeted in the passing game, nor did he return a kick. The 19 yards gain against Rutgers was the second most yards he's gained in the 4th quarter this season. Oh... and.. the 19 yards also constituted 54.3% of his total yards for the game (35) on the ground. So... there's that...

New Grand Total of 4th Q production:

29 carries for 81 yards (2.8 per carry, long of 12)
10 receptions on 13 targets for 97 yards and a score
4 KO Returns for 69 yards

43 touches for 247 and a score

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

By way of some contrast, against scUM in 2017, with the game on the line, Mike Weber and J.K. Dobbins combined for the following line in that game alone:

12 carries 84 yards (7.0 ypc, long 35) and a TD (Weber runs: 0, 6, 5, 3, 3, 1, -2, 25(td) Dobbins runs: 0, 2, 35, 6) Dobbins also caught a 3 yard pass

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

Derrius Guice > Barkley

Barley is a do not want but fleece another team if they do.. get Guice and i think you're good at RB for about 2 to 3 years

 

[kujirakira]

I guess I will start in reverse order. Fully agreed on Allen, I think the best landing spot for him would be Denver where he can sit for at least a year behind Keenum. But he would likely get eaten alive if he were to go to Cleveland. And I also hate Mayfield and think he is a cocky douche, but why the knock on size? He's between 6'1 and 6'2...Brees is about 5'11. Frankly I think he would fit well in Cleveland if you put Barkley at #1 with him in the backfield.

And on Barkley, it really blows my mind that the posters on here think he is all hype. It's not like he just blew up the combine out of nowhere, he put up big stats and huge plays at the highest level of competition. Sure, his production slowed down late last year when teams keyed on him 100% (including us after the 1st quarter)...but they won't be able to do that in the NFL. He's an unbelievable player and I think in terms of just pure talent and ability, the best player in the draft other than maybe Chubb...I can put my PSU hatred aside and see that.

As for Darnold and Rosen, I can see some gap between Rosen and the rest...I think he has the best tools out of all the QB's if his mind is in it. He can be great. But I just watched enough of Darnold last year to know I would not want my team to draft him in the top 5.

Barkley is a lot like Allen. He's not a bust... but the media hype is strong.
Both freaks in a physical sense. Both have significant issues on tape that only Al Davis Raiders and Cleveland Browns would ignore.
For all those amazing combine numbers, Barkley just doesn't play to his stature. He's a fat Eric Metcalf. When Moorehead went to the QB 2 out of 3 times from the goal line for the game against us... it just confirmed that his own coach doesn't trust Barkley to grind and fight for yards in the 4th.

Don't get me wrong, Barkley is good for a big-play TD every game and his big play ability definitely makes him 1st round value, esp if he can find a team with a real bruiser. But in between those big plays he only gets ~2.6ypc IIRC -- in College. That's not going to get better in the NFL. And it's not like 1 or 2 games against elite opponents brought that down - those are his numbers against the likes of Rutgers. Nor did Penn State have a hard schedule: Georgia State, Akron, and Pitt. His only consistent game was Iowa.
Is an X-factor wannabe Reggie Bush worth a top 5 pick? Especially at the least valuable draft position where production can be found anywhere ? No way.
Too many questions about his physicality imo. Based on his film from Penn State, I don't see how any team could even expect him to be a 3down back. His production plummets in the 3rd and 4th quarters. He doesn't even qualify as a traffic cone in pass pro... which is disappointing considering his demonstrated capabilities and size in the combine. But he just doesn't care if the ball isn't in his hands with space to break free.

 

[kujirakira]

Am I the only person that sees a bust in Barkley? Take away his longs and he gets like 2 yds/carry. That's not even an exaggeration.

Iowa - 27car / 167yds

6.19ypc​

Indy - 19car / 48yds

2.53ypc​

NW - 15car / 22yds

1.47ypc​

MI - 14car / 39yds

2.79ypc​

OSU - 20car / 8yds

0.40ypc​

MSU - 13car / 27yds

2.08ypc​

RU - 13car / 24yds

1.85ypc​

UN - 16car / 93yds

5.81ypc​

MY - 15car / 60yds

4.00ypc​

UW - 17car / 45yds

2.65ypc​

And to add my own data to the collection. So he had consistent games against Iowa, Nebraska, and Maryland. And... not so much otherwise.
Is it worth giving a RB 24car / 48yds all game for that 1 car / 60yd TD payoff ? Your offense won't stay on the field and defense is going to be ragged. But Barkley will still show up to the post-game interview like he did his part getting 4.32ypc, 108yds, and 1 TD... despite not fighting for some critical 3rd downs.
Looks good on paper, but not a winning strategy imo.

FWIW I believe his big play ability makes him 1st round material... but what happens between that keeps him out of the elite group imo.