Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[Bucky32]

Rumor has it we're talking trade with Green Bay
I think we offer Colt for Rogers as long as GB throws in a 4th rounder this year

Done deal. But Holmgren has to shave his walrus 'stache.

 

[stowfan]

I never said that Weeden will be the guy. If H+H think that he will be the guy, then it was definitely the right choice at #22.


You can't pass on a player this year hoping to get a better player at the same position next year. If Weeden's a guy you think can be your starting QB, then you don't pass on him now hoping to get a better QB next year.


And if the Browns drafted a 22-year old QB, you'd know whether he is the guy by age 29. How awesome would that make you feel? The point is this: Weeden has plenty of time to prove whether he is the guy.


Is my argument as fallacious as the assumption that the Weeden pick was "wasted"?

Does the anti-Weeden crowd have any viable alternatives, or are you all just a bunch of Colt McCoy fans?

Quarterback is unquestionably the most important position, but a quarterback can't win games for you on his own. I would like to see the Browns for once, assemble all the pieces needed for a quarterback to have a chance to succeed before they bring him in. A good illustration would be Tim Couch, regardless of what a bad pick you thought he was, he had no chance to succeed with no running game, or pass protection, or a decent receiving corp. All he did, was get beaten up, and booed.

 

[Onebuckfan]

My favorite football player of all time is Jim Brown and Basketball player is MJ. They are not talent evaluators or GM's. Jim Brown used his fame as a football player to become somekind of authority on everything.

 

[stowfan]

Rumor has it we're talking trade with Green Bay
I think we offer Colt for Rogers as long as GB throws in a 4th rounder this year

Good one, you're only 26 days late.

 

[stowfan]

jim brown has been pretty much anti-cleveland since Holmgren removed him from the browns facilities and he then shunned the ring ceremony we held a few years ago and has said nothing but bullshit since...while i still love him for everything he did while my grandpa was around, the guy to me is nothing but trash...i will go as far as to say racist as well

I'm of the opinion, Mo C would have been far better off had he not met Brown.

 

[y0yoyoin]

Quarterback is unquestionably the most important position, but a quarterback can't win games for you on his own. I would like to see the Browns for once, assemble all the pieces needed for a quarterback to have a chance to succeed before they bring him in. A good illustration would be Tim Couch, regardless of what you thought of him, he had no chance to succeed with no running game, or pass protection, or a decent receiving corp. All he did, was get beaten up, and booed.

and then holcomb replaces him and completely outshines him by beating ATL, and then throws for 400 yards in the 2002-2003 playoff game against the steelers, which the browns should of won of course if Northcutt doesnt drop that pass on 3rd down...so pretty much couch just sucked....he did get alot of money and heather kozar...so everything wasnt a total loss

 

[OH10]

you do realize if weed makes it past year 2, and is still our starting QB, this will be considered a success on many fronts

Which fronts? You don't draft a quarterback to just be a starter. You draft him to lead you to a Super Bowl. Just because some piece of shit starter is preferable to the alternative piece of shit starters doesn't make one a first-round success.

Hell, I don't even mind the Colt McCoy pick that much. He was a third rounder. We took a chance. He ended up playing like a 3rd rounder.

 

[dav713]

Apparently Jim Brown isn't much impressed with Richardson:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...y-ordinary-according-jim-brown-210328952.html

I know he was the GOAT in many eyes, but the dude just seems bitter to me.

I was pretty impressed with Richardson's response. Kid seems like a class act that's willing to put in the effort.

When Jim Brown called Richardson "ordinary" in an interview with ESPN Radio on Thursday, the No. 3 pick in the NFL draft couldn't really object.
"I'm an ordinary human," Richardson said shortly after the Browns traded up one spot to select the Alabama running back. "But as a back, I'm going to be that special guy. I'm going to make sure people hear my name."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/04/cleveland_browns_draft_pick_tr.html

 

[OH10]

I never said that Weeden will be the guy. If H+H think that he will be the guy, then it was definitely the right choice at #22.

Wrong. If he leads this team to the playoffs more than once, then he was definitely the right guy. Otherwise, you're just assuming the infallibility of H&H, who I still contend weren't the driving force behind this abortion of a pick.

You can't pass on a player this year hoping to get a better player at the same position next year. If Weeden's a guy you think can be your starting QB, then you don't pass on him now hoping to get a better QB next year.

If Weeden's the guy .... which is what I think most people (like myself) are disputing in a major way. Watch the film. The guy is a statue that shrinks under defensive pressure. He was successful in a gimmicky spread offense with receivers arguably better than the ones we have now AGAINST BIG 12 DEFENSES.

And if the Browns drafted a 22-year old QB, you'd know whether he is the guy by age 29. How awesome would that make you feel? The point is this: Weeden has plenty of time to prove whether he is the guy.

Bullshit. He has very little time to prove himself. He's one month OLDER than Aaron Rodgers. He can't afford the same old rookie growing pains if he's going to last in this league. If he can't step in and make at least a similar impact that Dalton made (at the age of 22), then the whole fucking front office needs to take a long walk off a short plank.

Is my argument as fallacious as the assumption that the Weeden pick was "wasted"?

Moreso. Your argument is that we needed to draft someone, anyone better than Colt McCoy - and if so, the pick is defensible. That's absurd in that 1) Colt is an unmitigated disaster that could have been replaced by Austin Moherman and it would have been better; and 2) THIS WAS A FIRST FUCKING ROUND PICK.

You don't just pick any guy that's an upgrade in the first round. You're picking the franchise. And Brandon fucking Weeden is the fucking franchise. And if you think he is, then you're drinking the Mike Holmgren Kool-Aid.

Does the anti-Weeden crowd have any viable alternatives, or are you all just a bunch of Colt McCoy fans?

I think they're both shit-sandwiches.

 

[AKAK]

Viable alternatives for what? I think plenty have put out alternative draft scenarios. As for QBs, why do you hate Colt McCoy so much? What did he do to you? I'm far from in love with the guy as a QB, but he had a top-to-bottom shitty offense to work with last year. I think giving him one more year to see if he developed while we shored up several other areas was better than taking Weeden in Round 1, who I can't see as much of an upgrade. Trent fucking Dilfer won a Super Bowl, so I personally wanted to see several other areas upgraded before we reached for a QB. I look at Weeden the same way I did Quinn and Tannehill...not the answer.

Question.

If we had the #1 overall pick this year, then, do we take Luck or do we add a bunch of parts?

 

[y0yoyoin]

Which fronts? You don't draft a quarterback to just be a starter. You draft him to lead you to a Super Bowl. Just because some piece of shit starter is preferable to the alternative piece of shit starters doesn't make one a first-round success.

Hell, I don't even mind the Colt McCoy pick that much. He was a third rounder. We took a chance. He ended up playing like a 3rd rounder.

well one front is that he's made it longer then any other brown as a starter since tim couch...2, if he is here longer then 2 years that means holmgren, heckert and shumur would still be here which is good for being consistent...3, if he is still here we would wouldnt be rebuilding completely which is what we do every 3 years...4, theres a possibility that if he is still around then we might be possibly competing for a playoff spot...those are ones i can just think of off the top of my head...how is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[y0yoyoin]

Question.

If we had the #1 overall pick this year, then, do we take Luck or do we add a bunch of parts?

you trade down and add a bunch of parts...duh...dont u know thats how you build a championship team?!?! it would be stupid for any team to take anyone with as much talent as Luck unless you have a great OL around him! hell put Peyton Manning on that Colts team and they wouldnt do shit...its common knowledge /end sarcasam

 

[dav713]

Question.

If we had the #1 overall pick this year, then, do we take Luck or do we add a bunch of parts?

Luck. But that wasn't our choice. Our choice was reaching for a 28 year old QB or parts. I'd prefer parts over Weeden.

so I personally wanted to see several other areas upgraded before we REACHED for a QB

 

[OH10]

well one front is that he's made it longer then any other brown as a starter since tim couch...2, ifhe is here longer then 2 years that means holmgren, heckert and shumur would still be here which is good for being consistent...3, if he is still here we would wouldnt be rebuilding completely which is what we do every 3 years...4, theres a possibility that if he is still around then we might be possibly competing for a playoff spot...those are ones i can just think of off the top of my head...how is this so hard to comprehend?

We're either competing for a playoff spot or we aren't. Fact is, if we're not competing for a playoff spot and he's still the starter after years, that's more fucking wasted time.

You say it's a success if he's starting for more than 2 years. I say it's a success if we're making the playoffs in 2013 and beyond. But it's probably good for you to lower your expectations... since it isn't going to fucking happen.

you trade down and add a bunch of parts...duh...dont u know thats how you build a championship team?!?! it would be stupid for any team to take anyone with as much talent as Luck unless you have a great OL around him! hell put Peyton Manning on that Colts team and they wouldnt do [Mark May]...its common knowledge /end sarcasam

I'm going to read that as apparently comparing Brandon Weeden to Andrew Luck. You sir have a future in the Browns front office if you think the situations would at all be similar.

 

[OH10]

I gotta stop with this Weeden debate. I'm on record. H&H will be as remembered for this failure of a draft pick as much as Savage is remembered for the dumpster fire pick of Brady Quinn.

And while I'm really fucking pissed about it now, I will love to be eating some crow years down the line.