Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[Bucklion]

Yeah, but, if one or all of Shurmer, Holmgren or Heckert in the beginning said they wouldn't be able to progress with McCoy, then why wouldn't he say that. It is a QB league.

This is only a problem if those guys were all like, "No, Randy, Colt is full of awesomeness" and Lerner said, "No you dumbasses, get Weeden anyway"

Look, it might be a win/win...if this guy actually sucks, we can go 1-15 and draft Barkley.

I guess I don't see it that way. All I've heard about Heckert and Holmgren both is that they have a specific philosophy about how to build a team, and they want to stick to it no matter what anyone thinks. So, their picks piss off the fans, they don't care, fine. But I find it hard to believe that 2 guys who know as much about football as they do don't look at the draft board and see 2 OL at positions of significant need that were projected to go in the top 10-12 still there at 22, after having just drafted a franchise power runner at #3 and burning picks to get/keep him, and say "You know what? I say we let those 2 future All Pros go on the OL and take the 28 year old QB" without some influence from the owner's incessant desire for a QB. They didn't have to be high as a kite on McCoy to want to take other guys, they might have wanted to see if McCoy could grow with the offense and a better line/running game. That is, of course, all speculation, but it is just as plausible.

 

[Bucklion]

Yeah, but, if one or all of Shurmer, Holmgren or Heckert in the beginning said they wouldn't be able to progress with McCoy, then why wouldn't he say that. It is a QB league.

This is only a problem if those guys were all like, "No, Randy, Colt is full of awesomeness" and Lerner said, "No you dumbasses, get Weeden anyway"

Look, it might be a win/win...if this guy actually sucks, we can go 1-15 and draft Barkley.

We could also go 1-15 and have 3 stalwarts on the OL for the next 5-10 years, which would be better.

 

[Mike80]

its time to start smoking the Weed

Browns offensive transformation means the end of Colt McCoy

Apr 27, 2012 -- 12:29am

I realize Colt McCoy isn't even a poor man's Jeff Garcia. He's not Montana and he certainly is not Drew Brees.

But what Lerner just forced Holmgren to do is stupid and borders on insanity.

NO QB EVER FUCKING BORN IS GOING TO WIN GIVEN THE "PIECES" ON THIS TEAM. NONE.

They had a chance to draft an offensive lineman who could help Joe Thomas anchor the line for the next fucking decade. Literally. Instead they get a 29 year old QB who played in an elementary system, was NEVER under center and are going to throw him to the wolves, in this division, with THAT schedule?

Fuck this team. They now rank BELOW the Orioles, at least the Orioles tried in Free Agency. They failed, but they tried. This fucking franchise does absolutely NOTHING to improve in free Agency, then drafts a RB they desperately needed and fucked it up immediately thereafter. I hope Richardson holds out the entire year. This is garbage.

 

[AKAK]

We could also go 1-15 and have 3 stalwarts on the OL for the next 5-10 years, which would be better.

No the real danger is continuing to win 4 or 5 games from now until forever... (that's the most likely outcome anyway.)

You give McCoy Richardson, a new OLineman (I'm not going past that, because that's where we are) and that's likely what you get.

Maybe not though... we did average a tidy 13.6 pts per game on 288 yards.

Again, Weeden may not indeed be the answer, but, I've seen enough of McCoy and if Weeden's not the guy, you have to go to the next dude.... simple as that.

 

[Mike80]

No the real danger is continuing to win 4 or 5 games from now until forever... (that's the most likely outcome anyway.)

You give McCoy Richardson, a new OLineman (I'm not going past that, because that's where we are) and that's likely what you get.

Maybe not though... we did average a tidy 13.6 pts per game on 288 yards.

Again, Weeden may not indeed be the answer, but, I've seen enough of McCoy and if Weeden's not the guy, you have to go to the next dude.... simple as that.

This is true. They aren't ever going to even be a playoff team with McCoy I don't think, not in this division.

However, look at the schedule this upcoming year. Look at who is coming out next year. He's the best QB prospect probably since Eli Manning. Why waste the pick this year on a QB that isn't going to get the job done instead of getting one of the 3 best OL in this draft? I don't get it.

Yes it's a QB league, but follow the models of the teams that have gotten the job done. All, with one exception, had at the very least a decent offensive line. The one exception is the Colts, but they had an all-time QB instead. Weeden isn't that either.

1-15 next year, at best 4-12 the year after and this regime will be gone anyway so projecting after that is useless.

 

[y0yoyoin]

Stephen Hill scares the crap out of me. I'm not longing for a guy who just spent 3 years in a triple option offense.

Lining up Hill with Little, who was a former RB in High School and college, and it shows in his hands, seems like an awful idea. The learning curve for Hill is going to be huge in the NFL no matter where he goes.

I don't think Paul Johnson is teaching the nuances of being an elite receiver at Ga Tech. Hill has bust potential all over him.

hill is boom or bust...i watched him at the combine and on THAT day he was the best WR there...his size and speed is one of a kind...and ya he could be a Heyward-Bay..but he could also be something special for us as well...at this point we need a WR to stretch the field...Randle or Hill can do that for us...i will not be surprised if we take Hill at #37 if Randle is taken by STL with the first pick

 

[OH10]

This isn't simply a matter of McCoy not being the guy. This is a matter of passing on potentially great (not good) offensive linemen for someone who is also probably not going to be the guy. And also letting your biggest rival swoop in and take one of them because that's just what the Steelers always fucking do: take the BPA, turn them into Pro Bowlers and kick our fucking ass.

I thought the same thing about Quinn that I think about Weeden. You have a desperate front office that know they need to make a splash to keep their jobs so they reach for a quarterback when they could have gotten another solid starter at another position. Most Browns fans I knew were pissed about Quinn and most are pissed now. There are a few Kool-Aid drinkers that want to believe, but I'm so done with that shit and this team.

The Browns are the worst run organization in football and I don't see it ever changing. Good luck with the perpetual misery.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Does it make you all feel better to know that the Bengals passed on DiCastro, too?

And that's how you're basing the viability of the "Weeden was Lerner's pick" narrative. Well, I guess I can't argue with assumptions. But I can point to coach's quote that names the owner first among those who influenced Weeden's selection. Outside of Oakland (when Al Davis was alive), Washington, and Dallas, what other owner would be that involved in the decision-making process?

Mike Brown?

 

[BB73]

I just checked the TV schedule for the NFL Draft tonight. My U-Verse listing says (honest to God):

"Among players expected to be available on second day of the NFL Draft are wide receiver Rueben Randle of LSU and Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden."

 

[AKAK]

This is true. They aren't ever going to even be a playoff team with McCoy I don't think, not in this division.

However, look at the schedule this upcoming year. Look at who is coming out next year. He's the best QB prospect probably since Eli Manning. Why waste the pick this year on a QB that isn't going to get the job done instead of getting one of the 3 best OL in this draft? I don't get it.

Yes it's a QB league, but follow the models of the teams that have gotten the job done. All, with one exception, had at the very least a decent offensive line. The one exception is the Colts, but they had an all-time QB instead. Weeden isn't that either.

1-15 next year, at best 4-12 the year after and this regime will be gone anyway so projecting after that is useless.

I mostly agree with you guys, I really do.

And had they passed on a Left Tackle (meaning they didn't have Thomas) to get this guy, I'd agree wholeheartedly. You can't just go get one of those guys.

And, having said that, there is still a crew of RT's on the board, which is obviously the biggest need, and I think they're a pretty good group to choose from too. So, with that in mind I hope they take one of them. And I still think you can upgrade at Guard other ways.

I suppose we would be looking at a WR at #37 if we had gotten the RT earlier, but, now we're in the Chicken or the Egg Dilemma.

 

[NFBuck]

Next year's draft looks strong for QBs. With this schedule, they had a legit shot at picking #1 overall, and being able to grab Barkley. Now...ah, fuck it. What's the difference...

 

[y0yoyoin]

This isn't simply a matter of McCoy not being the guy. This is a matter of passing on potentially great (not good) offensive linemen for someone who is also probably not going to be the guy. And also letting your biggest rival swoop in and take one of them because that's just what the Steelers always fucking do: take the BPA, turn them into Pro Bowlers and kick our fucking ass.

the steelers can afford to take OL and DL because they are set everywhere else every year....and they have what is called consistency...they are on their 3rd coach in like 40 years...browns were on their 3rd coach after like year 5...and i hope to god your not suggesting we should now draft in the future years based on what the steelers may want so we should then take that player...when they took Rothlesburger at #11 they received a bunch of shit for taking a QB that early at that time as well...i wanted a OL at #22...so i am with the consensus...but to spend 15 pages bitching about this shit is fucking stupid...its over...colt is done and its now in the hands of weeden...so wether or not we reached for him, i hope to god this guy is good...and if hes not then we can try again next year...this isnt setting the franchise back decades

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

Next year's draft looks strong for QBs. With this schedule, they had a legit shot at picking #1 overall, and being able to grab Barkley. Now...ah, fuck it. What's the difference...

Is he better than Palmer, Cassel, Sanchize, Leinert, or Booty?

Maybe Weeden pans out..after a nights sleep..and part of a day to think about it..maybe Cleveland and Cincinnati have done ok so far. I figure with so many complaints about Weeden, crow could be on future menus. Plus there is plenty of draft left to make a difference.

 

[Bucklion]

Is he better than Palmer, Cassel, Sanchize, Leinert, or Booty?

Maybe Weeden pans out..after a nights sleep..and part of a day to think about it..maybe Cleveland and Cincinnati have done ok so far. I figure with so many complaints about Weeden, crow could be on future menus. Plus there is plenty of draft left to make a difference.

It's not about crow, no one (OK, or at least I, most people?) don't WANT Weeden to fail, I just think tactically it was the worst possible move given the draft board and team needs. But, I agree with yoyo actually to an extent, I think the 15 pages the night of was fine, but at this point, we can all bitch forever and nothing else will come of it, so it is off to round 2 tonight and we'll see what happens. So I'm done bitching about it (I think ). And as for setting the franchise back decades, it already is, so one move like Weeden won't, but it isn't exactly helping either.

 

[cjmik_75]

They could select the next Barry Sanders, Orlando Pace, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Lawerence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Mark Bavaro and Deion Sanders in consecutive picks and still manage to fuck it up. They suck. Until Lerner is gone they're going to suck. Hard. Every fucking year it's the same bullshit. Why the fuck did they do this? Why the fuck did they do that? It's fucking old now. This organization is not what it once was. Not only do you suck for drafting in the top 5 nearly every year but you give up picks to move up one spot!?!!?!!!

There are too many holes to give up three late picks that "may or may not even make the roster". Assinine. They needed OL CB WR RB coming in. Just hold your fucking water and make a pick. Use those picks to move up later in round 1 or round 2 where you can target a guy an fill more needs WITH the BPA.

JFC this chicken shit approach is why you fucking suck every year! Stop it!!!

As long as they get an OL and a couple WRs from here to the end of the draft, I'm willing to look past the huge reach at QB considering the glaring needs elsewhere. This team needs more playmakers on both sides but offensively they got better with Richardson. Now give him some help.

Fucking clowns.