Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[NFBuck]

DeSean Jackson? [censored] no, thank you. He'd melt down here before October.

I've come around to the point where I think I'd be okay with them moving up for RG3. Kid is not just a freak athlete. He has legitimate QB skills, and seems to have a very good head on his shoulders. I see his ceiling more Donovan McNabb than Mike Vick. But, if they do make that move, I just hope they go out and get a legit receiver somehow. I like Manningham, but is he a #1 receiver? Personally, I see him more as a very good #2. They also need to find RB help. I'm not opposed to bringing Hillis back at the right price, but, they need to find somebody to compliment him. Let him play Mike Alstott to somebody else's Warrick Dunn. Montario Hardesty is not it. Then there's also the OL problem.

This is, IMO, the most important draft in this franchise's history since the rebirth. They have an opportunity this year to finally get themselves going in the right direction. We just have to hope they don't [censored] it up.

 

[y0yoyoin]

ive stated many times how i feel and what i think the browns should do involving trading up to get RGIII so im not going to go over that again...one thing i will say is i would hate to see them do what Mike Ditka did to trade up and get Ricky Williams...that set the franchise back years...but the browns are in a great position...it would be hard to fuck this draft up as hard as that is to believe...even if we do not trade up for RGIII we still have alot of picks to fill our needs...that being said im glad they said they will go out and get a veteran wide receiver...i think this is necessary...we are very young at that spot...one kid im really liking watching this combine is Stephen Hill from Georgia Tech...he is 6'4 and runs a 4.30 (unofficially) 40 time...and he did great in his gauntlet drills and catches a great deep ball...i dont see him getting past the 2nd round but he is someone to think about if the browns have a 2nd round pick....One thing i would not be happy with in this draft is if the browns strike out on everybody...i would be pissed if we do not get Flynn (who will likely end up in Miami), strike out trading up for RGIII, miss out on Blackmon who is drafted above pick #4 (probably someone trading up to #3), and are sitting with the #4 pick and then have to trade down...i am concerned with Blackmon not running his 40 time but then running the gauntlet drill with his supposed hamstring injury...along with Alshon Jeffery...it would hurt their draft stock for sure if they ran a slow 40 time but not running it at all doesnt help either...im sure both will run good 40 times at their pro days...so here is off the top of my head how i would like to see this offseason go including the draft

Draft:
Round 1 (2nd overall) RGIII - QB - Baylor
Browns trade 1st (4th overall), 1st (22nd), 2nd (2013 pick) 4th (5th)
Round 2 (5th overall) Stephen Hill - WR - Georgia Tech
Round 3 (4th overall) Bobby Massie - OT - Mississippi
Round 4 (23rd overall) LaMichael James - RB - Oregon
Round 5 (4th overall) DeQuan Menzie - CB - Alabama
Round 6 (5th overall) Devier Posey - WR - tOSU
Round 7 (4th overall) Markus Zusevics - OT - Iowa

I would like to see us take a LB also but i dont care where...i think LB, CB only on defense...draft the rest on offensive side of ball...im not high on any of the guys i listed besides hill from GTech...and maybe james...after taking RGIII i really dont care as much as long as we take pretty much the positions i have listed...and as you can see as much as we traded for RGIII we still have a pick in every round...we should also have around 21 million i believe in cap space to sign a veteran wide receiver (Stevie Johnson, Manningham, Garcon and maybe throw in Meachum), a nice LB and corner...then if we need to, which i wouldnt mind if he has his head out his ass, re-sign peyton hillis and sign Jackson to a multi-year deal...im not for franchising jackson since he also gets injured alot

 

[jlb1705]

Hey, Mary Kay: Why do people say the Browns need to fill other positions first and quarterback later? Of 12 playoff teams, eight QBs were first rounders, one was traded for (Schaub) and another a free agent Pro Bowler (Brees). That's 10 out of 12 playoff teams placing real emphasis on the 1uarterback. The only exceptions were Tom Brady (picked when Drew Bledsoe was on the roster) and Andy Dalton (second round). Isn't it time to stop with the draft sliders (McCoy, Quinn), scrap heaps (Anderson, Garcia) and fourth rounders (Frye) and get a quarterback? -- Doug Shaffer, Orange, Calif.

How many of those playoff teams spent one of their own top-5 picks to get the QB that led them to the playoffs?

• E. Manning (NYG) (draft day trade)
• A. Smith (SF)
• M. Stafford (DET)
• M. Ryan (ATL)

That's 4/12 teams in the playoff field, and only 1/8 teams that played in the divisional round or beyond. MOST teams in the playoffs are not doing what everybody in Cleveland screams for every two years. Oh and BTW, Quinn was a first round pick - right in the same range as some of the players this guy included in his 10/12 stat. How well did that work out?


FWIW, I'm coming around to the idea of drafting Griffin, but I am still adamantly opposed to trading up to get him. Let somebody else's pay a king's ransom for the #2 pick. I'm still not 100% convinced that a dual-threat QB is good for anything other than fantasy teams, but he just might be the BPA at #4 regardless of that. I'm inclined though to stand pat in this game of chicken. None of the teams 1-3 are going to pick him. If I were running this and really wanted him, I'd hold discussions and leak enough misinformation to keep the price of trading into the #2 spot high enough to discourage anybody else from trying it. Unfortunately, the Browns haven't employed anybody smart enough to do that in years, so there's no way that's how this will go down.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

ive stated many times how i feel and what i think the browns should do involving trading up to get RGIII so im not going to go over that again...one thing i will say is i would hate to see them do what Mike Ditka did to trade up and get Ricky Williams...that set the franchise back years...but the browns are in a great position...it would be hard to [censored] this draft up as hard as that is to believe...even if we do not trade up for RGIII we still have alot of picks to fill our needs...that being said im glad they said they will go out and get a veteran wide receiver...i think this is necessary...we are very young at that spot...one kid im really liking watching this combine is Stephen Hill from Georgia Tech...he is 6'4 and runs a 4.30 (unofficially) 40 time...and he did great in his gauntlet drills and catches a great deep ball...i dont see him getting past the 2nd round but he is someone to think about if the browns have a 2nd round pick....One thing i would not be happy with in this draft is if the browns strike out on everybody...i would be [censored]ed if we do not get Flynn (who will likely end up in Miami), strike out trading up for RGIII, miss out on Blackmon who is drafted above pick #4 (probably someone trading up to #3), and are sitting with the #4 pick and then have to trade down...i am concerned with Blackmon not running his 40 time but then running the gauntlet drill with his supposed hamstring injury...along with Alshon Jeffery...it would hurt their draft stock for sure if they ran a slow 40 time but not running it at all doesnt help either...im sure both will run good 40 times at their pro days...so here is off the top of my head how i would like to see this offseason go including the draft

Draft:
Round 1 (2nd overall) RGIII - QB - Baylor
Browns trade 1st (4th overall), 1st (22nd), 2nd (2013 pick) 4th (5th)
Round 2 (5th overall) Stephen Hill - WR - Georgia Tech
Round 3 (4th overall) Bobby Massie - OT - Mississippi
Round 4 (23rd overall) LaMichael James - RB - Oregon
Round 5 (4th overall) DeQuan Menzie - CB - Alabama
Round 6 (5th overall) Devier Posey - WR - tOSU
Round 7 (4th overall) Markus Zusevics - OT - Iowa

I would like to see us take a LB also but i dont care where...i think LB, CB only on defense...draft the rest on offensive side of ball...im not high on any of the guys i listed besides hill from GTech...and maybe james...after taking RGIII i really dont care as much as long as we take pretty much the positions i have listed...and as you can see as much as we traded for RGIII we still have a pick in every round...we should also have around 21 million i believe in cap space to sign a veteran wide receiver (Stevie Johnson, Manningham, Garcon and maybe throw in Meachum), a nice LB and corner...then if we need to, which i wouldnt mind if he has his head out his ass, re-sign peyton hillis and sign Jackson to a multi-year deal...im not for franchising jackson since he also gets injured alot

not likely to happen given he just ran an unofficial 4.30 40.. well I mean I guess since the Raiders are under new management he could still be around... but something just tells me he's not gonna be there at the top of the 2nd round or the "brain trust" will pass on him... I know I have 0 information on this... just a feeling.. .I'd love to see him play in Cleveland though.

 

[LitlBuck]

While I understand all of the love for Griffin, I do not want the Browns to give up their 2 first-round draft choices plus another choice to land him. This team really has too many holes to fill to give up high draft choices for 1 player. I don't think the Browns have any idea on how good McCoy might be without a surrounding cast. I would be willing to wait another year before using a high draft choice on a QB. I say fill some of the holes this year and see what happens with McCoy running the show.

I might also talk to Green Bay regarding Flynn but I think the asking price or his salary hit might turn me off. Now if Griffin is there at 4 I would take him in a heartbeat. Perhaps St. Louis will scare off all of the other suitors with their asking price.

Whatever happened to Ask Tony:(

 

[tsteele316]

How many of those playoff teams spent one of their own top-5 picks to get the QB that led them to the playoffs?

• E. Manning (NYG) (draft day trade)
• A. Smith (SF)
• M. Stafford (DET)
• M. Ryan (ATL)

That's 4/12 teams in the playoff field, and only 1/8 teams that played in the divisional round or beyond. MOST teams in the playoffs are not doing what everybody in Cleveland screams for every two years. Oh and BTW, Quinn was a first round pick - right in the same range as some of the players this guy included in his 10/12 stat. How well did that work out?


FWIW, I'm coming around to the idea of drafting Griffin, but I am still adamantly opposed to trading up to get him. Let somebody else's pay a king's ransom for the #2 pick. I'm still not 100% convinced that a dual-threat QB is good for anything other than fantasy teams, but he just might be the BPA at #4 regardless of that. I'm inclined though to stand pat in this game of chicken. None of the teams 1-3 are going to pick him. If I were running this and really wanted him, I'd hold discussions and leak enough misinformation to keep the price of trading into the #2 spot high enough to discourage anybody else from trying it. Unfortunately, the Browns haven't employed anybody smart enough to do that in years, so there's no way that's how this will go down.

the whole qb's in the playoffs stats is a weak argument. first, tom brady defies all qb statistical arguments. a total outlier. as for the rest, aaron rogers inexplicably fell due to weird circumstances of team needs. oddly enough, what team passed on him that let that happen, cleveland. ben rapistberger fell to #11. why? because cleveland passed on him. joe flacco is regarded as the reason why baltimore will never win a superbowl. tebow is a gimmick in a shitty division.

the only real stat that matters in the nfl is that if you don't have a franchise qb, you need to acquire one by whatever means exist at that given time. period. whether it's rolling the dice on an undersized guy that blew out his shoulder, or lucking into a guy falling into your lap. it doesn't matter.

 

[Mike80]

the whole qb's in the playoffs stats is a weak argument. first, tom brady defies all qb statistical arguments. a total outlier. as for the rest, aaron rogers inexplicably fell due to weird circumstances of team needs. oddly enough, what team passed on him that let that happen, cleveland. ben rapistberger fell to #11. why? because cleveland passed on him. joe flacco is regarded as the reason why baltimore will never win a superbowl. tebow is a gimmick in a shitty division.

the only real stat that matters in the nfl is that if you don't have a franchise qb, you need to acquire one by whatever means exist at that given time. period. whether it's rolling the dice on an undersized guy that blew out his shoulder, or lucking into a guy falling into your lap. it doesn't matter.

When Brady rose to prominence, what did he have surrounding him?

How about Toothlessberger? Flacco sucks but he gets into the AFC championship because of what exactly?

Cleveland could very well pick a QB. But until they fucking fix their goddamn problems everywhere else, a QB is just another rectangular peg in a square hole.

 

[tsteele316]

When Brady rose to prominence, what did he have surrounding him?

How about Toothlessberger? Flacco sucks but he gets into the AFC championship because of what exactly?

Cleveland could very well pick a QB. But until they fucking fix their goddamn problems everywhere else, a QB is just another rectangular peg in a square hole.

the days of trent dilfer coattailing his way to a superbowl ring are over. there is a reason that a bunch of teams with shitty defenses still managed to get to the superbowl and conference title games. it was on the back of their qb's.

if you're talking about giving up 4-5 picks for rg3, then no. but, if you're talking using #22 to move up to #2, you don't think twice. if you use some ass backwards logic in a plain dealer article to not take a qb top 5, then you deserve to suck.

 

[NFBuck]

When Brady rose to prominence, what did he have surrounding him?

How about Toothlessberger? Flacco sucks but he gets into the AFC championship because of what exactly?

Cleveland could very well pick a QB. But until they [censored]ing fix their goddamn problems everywhere else, a QB is just another rectangular peg in a square hole.

Not much at all, really. He took over when they were 0-2, and had gone 22-26 with some bad offenses the previous three seasons. Their best offensive player other than Brady that year was Antowain Smith, who declined rapidly after they won their first SB. Brady was the major reason that franchise took off. That success allowed them to add some marquee names down the road, but that was a no-name team in 2001.

Rapistburger had good talent around him, but he was very much eased into the job. He cut his teeth in a run-heavy offense and had one of the best defenses in the league. He was a classic "game-manager" his first two years. But, they were very successful because they had stout lines, a great running game, and a nasty defense.

Flacco is the type of QB that I think is good enough to get you to the playoffs by himself, but he wilts terribly in big games. As their defense gets older and older, I think that franchise will fall back to the middle of the pack, unless they spend big money to improve it.

I think you can win a SB in the NFL without a premier QB, but it takes a lot to do it. You need at least a decent QB that can make a big play when needed, doesn't make mistakes, and can lead. You need a top-5 running game, good lines, and strong defense. That takes years to build. If you see a QB that you think can make everybody around him better and carry a team, I think you grab him. The more I read about RG3, the more I've seen of him, I think he's pretty close to that. There's the whole "dual threat" qb argument, but if RG3 could have the success McNabb had in Philly, I'm sure any of us would take it after what we've been subjected to the past 13 seasons. I'm okay with giving up 4 & 22 to move up...maybe another 2nd rounder. This, of course, would also require them to be smart with the rest of their picks, and upgrade the RB and WR positions...hell, and the OL, somehow, someway.

 

[Mike80]

Not much at all, really. He took over when they were 0-2, and had gone 22-26 with some bad offenses the previous three seasons. Their best offensive player other than Brady that year was Antowain Smith, who declined rapidly after they won their first SB. Brady was the major reason that franchise took off. That success allowed them to add some marquee names down the road, but that was a no-name team in 2001.

Rapistburger had good talent around him, but he was very much eased into the job. He cut his teeth in a run-heavy offense and had one of the best defenses in the league. He was a classic "game-manager" his first two years. But, they were very successful because they had stout lines, a great running game, and a nasty defense.

Flacco is the type of QB that I think is good enough to get you to the playoffs by himself, but he wilts terribly in big games. As their defense gets older and older, I think that franchise will fall back to the middle of the pack, unless they spend big money to improve it.

I think you can win in the NFL without a premier QB, but it takes a lot to do it. You need at least a decent QB that can make a big play when needed, doesn't make mistakes, and can lead. You need a top-5 running game, good lines, and strong defense. That takes years to build. If you see a QB that you think can make everybody around him better and carry a team, I think you grab him. The more I read about RG3, the more I've seen of him, I think he's pretty close to that. There's the whole "dual threat" qb argument, but if RG3 could have the success McNabb had in Philly, I'm sure any of us would take it after what we've been subjected to the past 13 seasons...

They had a good defense that year that was stingy when it came to points allowed. Once they found an efficient QB who wouldn't make mistakes constantly, they took off yes, but they had a good defense as well as well as a stable O-line and running game.

The Browns don't have any of that.

 

[Mike80]

the days of trent dilfer coattailing his way to a superbowl ring are over. there is a reason that a bunch of teams with shitty defenses still managed to get to the superbowl and conference title games. it was on the back of their qb's.

if you're talking about giving up 4-5 picks for rg3, then no. but, if you're talking using #22 to move up to #2, you don't think twice. if you use some ass backwards logic in a plain dealer article to not take a qb top 5, then you deserve to suck.

No you think 3 times and pass.

no one above the Browns is going to pick RGIII. IF someone else wants to get stupid and draft up, let them.

Face it, this team is going to suck either way. Look at the division. RGIII, God help him, if he gets drafted by the Browns will have exactly one pro-bowler on his left side and no one else. Good luck with that.

 

[AKAK]

the days of trent dilfer coattailing his way to a superbowl ring are over. there is a reason that a bunch of teams with [Mark May]ty defenses still managed to get to the superbowl and conference title games. it was on the back of their qb's.

if you're talking about giving up 4-5 picks for rg3, then no. but, if you're talking using #22 to move up to #2, you don't think twice. if you use some ass backwards logic in a plain dealer article to not take a qb top 5, then you deserve to suck.

Yeah, agree if they like rg3 as that guy.

Question here is, what's it gonna cost. Much to the dismay of the rams, etc, the market is going to fall apart one manning and flynn land somewhere.

Thing is, I don't see a bidding war breaking out that's gonna be too steep. So, if anyone's asking for the world, you almost make them eli manning it, and make them draft the kid and trade him.

Not sure what the draft valu chart looks like in the rookie salary cap era but a first rounder to move a couple spots seems steep (player in question aside)

Rule 1: don't bid against yourself

 

[NFBuck]

They had a good defense that year that was stingy when it came to points allowed. Once they found an efficient QB who wouldn't make mistakes constantly, they took off yes, but they had a good defense as well as well as a stable O-line and running game.

The Browns don't have any of that.

They had a very good defense, not great. Their running game was pretty mediocre as well...I think they averaged < 4 yards a carry as a team. Brady coming of age down the stretch led to that run. And, of course, very good OL play. I think that's a given on any championship team.

My point is, if you think RG3 is the kind of QB that can carry a team, you make the move...so long as you don't get raped. Regardless of what they do in the draft this year, it's not going to be an immediate turn around. But, if you can cross QB off your needs list, it's a major step in the right direction. I don't think there's much QB-wise in the 2013 draft...nothing on Luck or RG3's level, anyway. So, you can pin your hopes to McCoy, but that's a huge gamble given what we've seen. You can hope to grab somebody next year, again, a gamble.

I just think, if Griffen's your guy, grab him. Try to get him some help in rounds 2-4 and through FA, maybe ease him in this year behind McCoy, fill in some more needs picking relatively early again next year and go from there. Nobody else really excites me in this draft. I like Blackmon, but I also really liked Crabtree a couple of years ago. Richardson I like, but not at #4. You could trade down and stockpile more picks, but then, you're likely still looking for a QB next year.

Ah, fuck it. It's the Browns. I'm sure whoever they pick will blow an ACL in August, anyway.

 

[y0yoyoin]

No you think 3 times and pass.

no one above the Browns is going to pick RGIII. IF someone else wants to get stupid and draft up, let them.

wow im glad your not the browns GM...the steelers or bengals GM maybe...getting the best player in the draft (If Luck wasn't in the draft this year) for the #4 and #22 in the draft is a steal

 

[LitlBuck]

wow im glad your not the browns GM...the steelers or bengals GM maybe...getting the best player in the draft (If Luck wasn't in the draft this year) for the #4 and #22 in the draft is a steal

I would do that but that is all I would do. I would not give away any more draft choices.