Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[LitlBuck]

Bucklion and tsteele thank you for that or maybe not. It's rather obvious that both of you love the Browns:)

 

[stowfan]

I'm somewhat surprised no one brought up that McCoy was Holgrem's personal can't miss draft pick?

 

[Bucklion]

I'm somewhat surprised no one brought up that McCoy was Holgrem's personal can't miss draft pick?

I don't think a 3rd rounder can be characterized as a can't miss.

 

[AKAK]

Well whatever Lerner's involvement or lack thereof, in any event the draft is over, and it's time to wait and see who shows up in shape and ready to play in the fall. What's done is done. It's H&H's asses on the line, so they had better know what they are doing. I'll be surprised if Hughes ever plays. The rest I guess we'll see. I doubt McCoy gets traded because no team with a brain will give up anything for him.

Well... here's what gets me... and this isn't so much directed at you BL, but generally.

If McCoy sucks so bad, why be pissed that they try to upgrade the position.

Now...

I understand that we have other needs. Clearly, the powers that be, whether they are Lerner, Heckert, Holmgren, etc realize that, or else they'd have outbid the Redskins for RGIII. Then you don't have Trent Richardson, you probably don't have a RT... and you don't have whoever they get-- bust or not-- the next 2 years in the first round.

And while Weeden might suck - you already know McCoy's not the guy (See: no team with a Brain will give anything up for him)... so why keep going in that direction.

It seems now to be the case that once Kendall Wright was off the board, WR wasn't getting an impact player in H&H's opinion.

The only other issue I have is maybe Hughes... and apparently there was some buzz around him on other teams, but, whatever. I don't mind getting more DT's (though I think they might see Winn as a flyer at End maybe) While Rubin and Taylor are good, the guys behind them, leave much to be desired.

So, in the end, it's not as though we gave up our first round pick next year to get Weeden (*cough* Brady Quinn *cough*) and if we go 1-15 we grab Barkley or whoever. Also, while a #22 pick was used, at least we're not in the situation where you have to pay 7 million a year or some BS to a guy who might not pan out, so, from that perspective, its a much smaller risk becaues you're not going to have that kind of cash on the books for 5 years (or whatever).

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

I'm all about inclusion.


(except, of course, if we're talking about that cockhole Bucky Katt)

EABOD.

 

[Piney]

Well... here's what gets me... and this isn't so much directed at you BL, but generally.

If McCoy sucks so bad, why be pissed that they try to upgrade the position.

Now...

I understand that we have other needs. Clearly, the powers that be, whether they are Lerner, Heckert, Holmgren, etc realize that, or else they'd have outbid the Redskins for RGIII. Then you don't have Trent Richardson, you probably don't have a RT... and you don't have whoever they get-- bust or not-- the next 2 years in the first round.

And while Weeden might suck - you already know McCoy's not the guy (See: no team with a Brain will give anything up for him)... so why keep going in that direction.

It seems now to be the case that once Kendall Wright was off the board, WR wasn't getting an impact player in H&H's opinion.

The only other issue I have is maybe Hughes... and apparently there was some buzz around him on other teams, but, whatever. I don't mind getting more DT's (though I think they might see Winn as a flyer at End maybe) While Rubin and Taylor are good, the guys behind them, leave much to be desired.

So, in the end, it's not as though we gave up our first round pick next year to get Weeden (*cough* Brady Quinn *cough*) and if we go 1-15 we grab Barkley or whoever. Also, while a #22 pick was used, at least we're not in the situation where you have to pay 7 million a year or some BS to a guy who might not pan out, so, from that perspective, its a much smaller risk becaues you're not going to have that kind of cash on the books for 5 years (or whatever).

First I'll address Hughes, I was not one that cried that they reached for him. It's the freaking 3rd round. If he is a good rotation DT that can keep the starters fresh he was worth it.

Now about Weeden, while I hate the pick I don't mind them upgrading the QB position. I am just afraid that they will use it as an excuse not to get a premium QB next year if we are picking in the Top 5. If we are picking in the Top 5 next season, it is because Weeden wasn't good enough. If they pick Barkley/Bray/Wilson then Weeden can serve as a very capable backup (hopefully) as like you said, at #22 his contract isn't going to be a killer.

 

[AKAK]

First I'll address Hughes, I was not one that cried that they reached for him. It's the freaking 3rd round. If he is a good rotation DT that can keep the starters fresh he was worth it.

Now about Weeden, while I hate the pick I don't mind them upgrading the QB position. I am just afraid that they will use it as an excuse not to get a premium QB next year if we are picking in the Top 5. If we are picking in the Top 5 next season, it is because Weeden wasn't good enough. If they pick Barkley/Bray/Wilson then Weeden can serve as a very capable backup (hopefully) as like you said, at #22 his contract isn't going to be a killer.

Oh, I wouldn't worry. I think Holmgren said when he came in not to be surprised if they drafted a QB every year. I don't think they'd hesitate for a second.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

Oh, I wouldn't worry. I think Holmgren said when he came in not to be surprised if they drafted a QB every year. I don't think they'd hesitate for a second.

... given his track record going back to Seattle... He might draft a QB... just not one of the top rated QBs of the draft.

 

[OH10]

If McCoy sucks so bad, why be [censored]ed that they try to upgrade the position.

Now...

I understand that we have other needs. Clearly, the powers that be, whether they are Lerner, Heckert, Holmgren, etc realize that, or else they'd have outbid the Redskins for RGIII. Then you don't have Trent Richardson, you probably don't have a RT... and you don't have whoever they get-- bust or not-- the next 2 years in the first round.

And while Weeden might suck - you already know McCoy's not the guy (See: no team with a Brain will give anything up for him)... so why keep going in that direction.

The problem is that the quarterback position isn't one in which you simply upgrade. If you're not sold on a QB in the draft who has the ability to lead your team to a Super Bowl, wait until you can find one. Don't just draft someone to get another quarterback or it's going to be a revolving door. (See the 17 QBs Cleveland has had since 1999)

And while teams like the Browns keep reaching for quarterbacks, solidified franchises like Steelers go out and find great players to upgrade other positions. Even when the Steelers had a quarterback problem (Kordell Stewart/Tommy Maddox) before Big Ben, they didn't reach. They waited until BB fell in their lap and they scooped him up.

 

[exhawg]

The problem is that the quarterback position isn't one in which you simply upgrade. If you're not sold on a QB in the draft who has the ability to lead your team to a Super Bowl, wait until you can find one. Don't just draft someone to get another quarterback or it's going to be a revolving door. (See the 17 QBs Cleveland has had since 1999)

And while teams like the Browns keep reaching for quarterbacks, solidified franchises like Steelers go out and find great players to upgrade other positions. Even when the Steelers had a quarterback problem (Kordell Stewart/Tommy Maddox) before Big Ben, they didn't reach. They waited until BB fell in their lap and they scooped him up.

The thing is I think they see Weeden as the QB that they want. I don't agree right now, but I really hope I'm wrong. If he puts up better numbers than any of the other QB's drafted this year over the next two years then it will be looked upon as a good pick. IMO regardless of your opinion of the draft the Browns are better now than they were a week ago.

 

[OH10]

The thing is I think they see Weeden as the QB that they want. I don't agree right now, but I really hope I'm wrong. If he puts up better numbers than any of the other QB's drafted this year over the next two years then it will be looked upon as a good pick. IMO regardless of your opinion of the draft the Browns are better now than they were a week ago.

Better, but not competitive and, most importantly, further behind long term if Weeden flames out.

 

[tsteele316]

the browns had one of the worst offenses they've ever had, most of it due to poor qb play, and were picking top 4 and couldn't get a franchise qb there.

to simply assume that a franchise qb would fall in their lap in the 2013 draft is foolish, and certainly not a reason to pass on weeden if they think he could be the guy.

 

[Bucklion]

Well... here's what gets me... and this isn't so much directed at you BL, but generally.

If McCoy sucks so bad, why be [censored]ed that they try to upgrade the position.

Now...

I understand that we have other needs. Clearly, the powers that be, whether they are Lerner, Heckert, Holmgren, etc realize that, or else they'd have outbid the Redskins for RGIII. Then you don't have Trent Richardson, you probably don't have a RT... and you don't have whoever they get-- bust or not-- the next 2 years in the first round.

And while Weeden might suck - you already know McCoy's not the guy (See: no team with a Brain will give anything up for him)... so why keep going in that direction.

It seems now to be the case that once Kendall Wright was off the board, WR wasn't getting an impact player in H&H's opinion.

The only other issue I have is maybe Hughes... and apparently there was some buzz around him on other teams, but, whatever. I don't mind getting more DT's (though I think they might see Winn as a flyer at End maybe) While Rubin and Taylor are good, the guys behind them, leave much to be desired.

So, in the end, it's not as though we gave up our first round pick next year to get Weeden (*cough* Brady Quinn *cough*) and if we go 1-15 we grab Barkley or whoever. Also, while a #22 pick was used, at least we're not in the situation where you have to pay 7 million a year or some BS to a guy who might not pan out, so, from that perspective, its a much smaller risk becaues you're not going to have that kind of cash on the books for 5 years (or whatever).

No one I know is pissed they are trying to upgrade the position in general except maybe Colt's mom and people who stocked up on Colt Browns merchandise. The problem is everyone throws around the phrase "franchise QB" and we burned a #1 pick on the 4th best QB (according to draft boards) of this draft, who based on a number of factors is highly questionable to be an upgrade at all, let alone a franchise QB (such as it is anymore). Would anyone like to go back and trade Mack for Sanchez now? I doubt it, and if we had done anything with those extra picks we got in round 2, we would have raped the hell out of the Jets in that trade. Sanchise was a lot more highly touted coming out than Weeden, and he is, at best, average. It's true there were no additional #1s given up to take Weeden, which of course is good...I just don't think Weeden is going to be any more of a long term answer than McCoy, and we could have had a guard for example that may be a 10x Pro Bowler if the projections are right. Of course no one ever knows for sure going in, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I don't see RT or BW as any kind of high quality QB prospect. Like I say, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bucklion]

Well... here's what gets me... and this isn't so much directed at you BL, but generally.

If McCoy sucks so bad, why be [censored]ed that they try to upgrade the position.

Now...

I understand that we have other needs. Clearly, the powers that be, whether they are Lerner, Heckert, Holmgren, etc realize that, or else they'd have outbid the Redskins for RGIII. Then you don't have Trent Richardson, you probably don't have a RT... and you don't have whoever they get-- bust or not-- the next 2 years in the first round.

And while Weeden might suck - you already know McCoy's not the guy (See: no team with a Brain will give anything up for him)... so why keep going in that direction.

It seems now to be the case that once Kendall Wright was off the board, WR wasn't getting an impact player in H&H's opinion.

The only other issue I have is maybe Hughes... and apparently there was some buzz around him on other teams, but, whatever. I don't mind getting more DT's (though I think they might see Winn as a flyer at End maybe) While Rubin and Taylor are good, the guys behind them, leave much to be desired.

So, in the end, it's not as though we gave up our first round pick next year to get Weeden (*cough* Brady Quinn *cough*) and if we go 1-15 we grab Barkley or whoever. Also, while a #22 pick was used, at least we're not in the situation where you have to pay 7 million a year or some BS to a guy who might not pan out, so, from that perspective, its a much smaller risk becaues you're not going to have that kind of cash on the books for 5 years (or whatever).

As for Hughes, meh, I think he will be a colossal bust, but hell maybe he won't be, they don't expect him to be more than filler since they have PT and AR. The problem is I am tired of this fucking team (yes, no matter what regime it is) taking "projects". Veikune was a "project". Carlton Mitchell is a "project"...how often has he ever seen the field? The 3rd round may not be where you find Pro Bowlers, but it is a spot where you can get contributors that should stick with your team for a while. If Hughes is that, we can all be satisfied. I just don't think this is a team that should be making reaches...they should be taking solid players at positions of real need. Why not get a guy at a position where he can at least compete for a starting job and push a guy in round 3? That's one reason why taking the tackle in R2 and the guard in R5 were good picks IMO.

 

[tsteele316]

No one I know is pissed they are trying to upgrade the position in general except maybe Colt's mom and people who stocked up on Colt Browns merchandise. The problem is everyone throws around the phrase "franchise QB" and we burned a #1 pick on the 4th best QB (according to draft boards) of this draft, who based on a number of factors is highly questionable to be an upgrade at all, let alone a franchise QB (such as it is anymore). Would anyone like to go back and trade Mack for Sanchez now? I doubt it, and if we had done anything with those extra picks we got in round 2, we would have raped the hell out of the Jets in that trade. Sanchise was a lot more highly touted coming out than Weeden, and he is, at best, average. It's true there were no additional #1s given up to take Weeden, which of course is good...I just don't think Weeden is going to be any more of a long term answer than McCoy, and we could have had a guard for example that may be a 10x Pro Bowler if the projections are right. Of course no one ever knows for sure going in, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I don't see RT or BW as any kind of high quality QB prospect. Like I say, I hope I'm wrong.

if brandon weeden was the same age as ryan tannehill, he'd have probably gone #4 to cleveland, or at worst #8 to miami. cleveland simply doesn't weigh his age as the deterrent that other teams did, mostly because their qb is far worse than most teams.