Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

[stowfan]

If you were to ask me about last years draft, my comments would be scathing. Yes, on paper all of the teams in the AFC North did much better than the Browns this year. After reading this thread it appears the Browns should have left the QB position alone and taken another year of lumps with McCoy.

The Browns could have done things much differently with this draft, but what's done is done. The reason for my optimism is, compared to last year the Browns may have upgraded several of the units. Richardson could turn out to be the best back we've had in years. He and Hardisty (if healthy) could give us as good a group of Running backs in the AFC North.

Weeden was rated as the 44th best overall prospect in the draft. That was taking his age into consideration. He could end up being an upgrade at QB.
I don't think he will rival Rothlesburger (SP?) next year, but could the Browns have won more games last year with a better QB?

The offensive line could end up being upgraded compared to last year. The o-line unit was a joke. I've already completely given up on Lavolu (SP) and Pinkston I'm giving one more year with little hope. I think even JB Shugarts has a chance of making the roster, it's that bad.

The D-line gained depth. Winn played DE in college @ 294 pounds. In case you didn't notice, we have a huge hole at one end. Winn could see playing time, because the Browns are that bad.

I've never been a fan of any of the Browns linebackers. Acho was at least first team all Big 12. The kid from Nevada could see playing time as well, he's at least big enough.

The CB we drafted is too slow to play anything but safety or special teams.
In sum, the Brown were shit last year and still won 4 games. They should field a far more complete football team next year.

 

[tsteele316]

Well it was a joke, hence the "LOL", but if you want to be a dick about it...

you said "field a tough defense and obtain a QB" is the only difference between Pittsburgh and Cleveland, that and draft well over 10 years instead of 2...sounds like personnel (too many to name), coaching (LeBeau), and getting the most out of the talent you draft, including having marginal DEs play really well in a system that features LBs, which is both. Of course we could also factor in production from WRs like Ward, El, Wallace, etc. having one of the best TEs in the game, having more consistency at RB in Mendenhall, and commiting high picks to their OL, but yeah, if we had gotten RGIII we could start buying SB tickets. Yep, sounds like the state of the Browns alright.

so, then your position is that the failures of the previous 3 regimes are now the fault of the current regime, because the browns had no talent when the current regime arrived. seems quite logical.

 

[Bucklion]

so, then your position is that the failures of the previous 3 regimes are now the fault of the current regime, because the browns had no talent when the current regime arrived. seems quite logical.

Yeah that's exactly what I said. Try harder.

 

[Bucklion]

Oh yeah because Cleveland fans didnt bitch when they were the old Cleveland Browns.....Bill ran out of town etc etc

I think demanding a winner is what a fan base should do but instead of stepping back and taking a look to see what happens its

Belicheck sucks...Mangino sucks....Colt Sucks...with in days of them showing up....and in the case of this draft, while flawed....before anyone even gets into town

Of course they did, every fanbase does, but they also embraced teams like the Kardiac Kids, Bernie Kosar, and lots of other teams/players. This team has sucked hard for a long time. Since 1990, the team has 2 playoff appearances, a fluke 10-6 season to make it 3 winning seasons, no division titles, and it has left the city for 3 years and come back as an expansion team. In the meantime, the 2 biggest rivals of the team, one of which is the old team, have won Super Bowls. There aren't many cities that would go through all that and still support a team at all...there is a reason that the nations' second largest city currently has no NFL team.

I get it, people, myself included, can jump the gun on draft day, but it's really hard to ask a fanbase to simmer down on it when it is the only thing they have to look forward to for the better part of 20 years. This team is perennially closer to the #1 overall pick (but painfully short of it) than it is to the playoffs seemingly every year. It's tough to cut much slack given those circumstances.

 

[tsteele316]

Of course they did, every fanbase does, but they also embraced teams like the Kardiac Kids, Bernie Kosar, and lots of other teams/players. This team has sucked hard for a long time. Since 1990, the team has 2 playoff appearances, a fluke 10-6 season to make it 3 winning seasons, no division titles, and it has left the city for 3 years and come back as an expansion team. In the meantime, the 2 biggest rivals of the team, one of which is the old team, have won Super Bowls. There aren't many cities that would go through all that and still support a team at all...there is a reason that the nations' second largest city currently has no NFL team.

I get it, people, myself included, can jump the gun on draft day, but it's really hard to ask a fanbase to simmer down on it when it is the only thing they have to look forward to for the better part of 20 years. This team is perennially closer to the #1 overall pick (but painfully short of it) than it is to the playoffs seemingly every year. It's tough to cut much slack given those circumstances.

so, you're try harder comment to me is even more fitting, since what I described in your quoted post was essentially what you are claiming once again here.

essentially, the failure of the previous regimes means browns fans have granted themselves the latitude to bitch obsessively about draft picks without seeing them once step on the field. but they can be granted immunity on doing this for the past two years when they all whined continually only to watch the draftees they whined about perform well. but that's still acceptable because the team isn't winning games, despite being totally lacking in any real talent at most positions primarily due to the failures of the previous regimes.

so, in summation, browns fans arguments are that because phil savage and eric mangini really sucked, tom heckert therefore sucks, despite the fact that cleveland has drafted better in the last two years than they have since the return.

 

[Bucklion]

so, you're try harder comment to me is even more fitting, since what I described in your quoted post was essentially what you are claiming once again here.

essentially, the failure of the previous regimes means browns fans have granted themselves the latitude to bitch obsessively about draft picks without seeing them once step on the field. but they can be granted immunity on doing this for the past two years when they all whined continually only to watch the draftees they whined about perform well. but that's still acceptable because the team isn't winning games, despite being totally lacking in any real talent at most positions primarily due to the failures of the previous regimes.

so, in summation, browns fans arguments are that because phil savage and eric mangini really sucked, tom heckert therefore sucks, despite the fact that cleveland has drafted better in the last two years than they have since the return.

Let's see, you want to constantly bitch about Browns fans and their frustrations, and media reports are true only when it agrees with you. Got it.

 

[tsteele316]

Let's see, you want to constantly bitch about Browns fans and their frustrations, and media reports are true only when it agrees with you. Got it.

media reports are true when there is evidence to back them up. also, media reports are pretty different than some slapdick's mock draft rankings. pretty big difference. but since you're either deliberately being daft about it, or simply ignoring the evidence, I'll be nice and lay it out pretty plainly for you.

report: minny had other offers for #3.
evidence: minny's GM on PFT today says point blank they had other offers for #3. Tampa immediately trades down before the #3 pick is even announced. Tampa then trades back up into the first to take a 2nd tier rb. the rams immediately trade out of #6. seems pretty easy to grasp.
report: schwartz was going in the 2nd round.
evidence: atlanta beat reporter says the falcons tried to trade up in the 2nd to take schwartz, and instead took a 2nd rate RT from Utah when they couldn't move up. The only other legit RT prospect on the board went into a free fall to the 4th round.
report: several teams had interest in hughes in the 3rd.
evidence: hughes himself states that both pitts and new orleans called him friday night to let him know they were interested in him. he was invited to visit both places. the saints took a cannuck DT and pitt drafted an injured samoan with their next picks.

i know this sort of thing flies in the face of the bitchfest that has overtaken this thread. so, i'm sorry that supporting evidence seems to have deflated that balloon.

but really, the whining over draft picks is not much different than last year's whining, or the crying after the 2010 draft. but, some people won't let that get in their way.

 

[muffler dragon]

Cleveland Browns threads: where bitchers go to bitch about the bitchers who bitch about the Browns.

 

[stowfan]

Cleveland Browns threads: where bitchers go to bitch about the bitchers who bitch about the Browns.

Hey, dont forget about the people who bitch about the people who don't bitch about the Browns

 

[Bucklion]

media reports are true when there is evidence to back them up. also, media reports are pretty different than some slapdick's mock draft rankings. pretty big difference. but since you're either deliberately being daft about it, or simply ignoring the evidence, I'll be nice and lay it out pretty plainly for you.

report: minny had other offers for #3.
evidence: minny's GM on PFT today says point blank they had other offers for #3. Tampa immediately trades down before the #3 pick is even announced. Tampa then trades back up into the first to take a 2nd tier rb. the rams immediately trade out of #6. seems pretty easy to grasp.
report: schwartz was going in the 2nd round.
evidence: atlanta beat reporter says the falcons tried to trade up in the 2nd to take schwartz, and instead took a 2nd rate RT from Utah when they couldn't move up. The only other legit RT prospect on the board went into a free fall to the 4th round.
report: several teams had interest in hughes in the 3rd.
evidence: hughes himself states that both pitts and new orleans called him friday night to let him know they were interested in him. he was invited to visit both places. the saints took a cannuck DT and pitt drafted an injured samoan with their next picks.

i know this sort of thing flies in the face of the bitchfest that has overtaken this thread. so, i'm sorry that supporting evidence seems to have deflated that balloon.

but really, the whining over draft picks is not much different than last year's whining, or the crying after the 2010 draft. but, some people won't let that get in their way.

Amusing you left this one out:

report: Lerner had influence in the decision to take Weeden
evidence: articles from both local and national news, which included direct quotes from Shurmer and Heckert.

tsteele response in this thread to posted article: "lol. espn brilliance again. randy lerner has never once meddled in the draft or free agency."

Of which you have no direct evidence of unless you work for the team or know Lerner or H&H personally, you just blew it off because you didn't like the message. But yeah, keep talking about "evidence" backing up your point of view all the time.

 

[muffler dragon]

Hey, dont forget about the people who bitch about the people who don't bitch about the Browns

I'm all about inclusion.


(except, of course, if we're talking about that cockhole Bucky Katt)

 

[tsteele316]

Amusing you left this one out:

report: Lerner had influence in the decision to take Weeden
evidence: articles from both local and national news, which included direct quotes from Shurmer and Heckert.

tsteele response in this thread to posted article: "lol. espn brilliance again. randy lerner has never once meddled in the draft or free agency."

Of which you have no direct evidence of unless you work for the team or know Lerner or H&H personally, you just blew it off because you didn't like the message. But yeah, keep talking about "evidence" backing up your point of view all the time.

was randy lerner in new york for the draft? no. has randy lerner ever once offered his opinion on draft day? no. had randy lerner stated such in the past? yes. was this report debunked already on cleveland's premium forum? yes. was this report offered by espn shortly before they said that cleveland was going to trade mccoy? yes. did espn then end up retracting that report? yes.

and, did this report in any way have any corroborating evidence like the examples I just gave you? of course the answer is no.

 

[Bucklion]

was randy lerner in new york for the draft? no. has randy lerner ever once offered his opinion on draft day? no. had randy lerner stated such in the past? yes. was this report debunked already on cleveland's premium forum? yes. was this report offered by espn shortly before they said that cleveland was going to trade mccoy? yes. did espn then end up retracting that report? yes.

and, did this report in any way have any corroborating evidence like the examples I just gave you? of course the answer is no.

Corroborating evidence other than people reporting who actually talk to Heckert and Shurmer? No, but who would talk to the coach and GM about personnel decisions? I mean, that's crazy talk. And as for Lerner "offering his opinion", could that be to H&H, or would that have to be directly to tsteele to count?

BTW I didn't accept or dispute anything the radio report said...of course some of it is likely true, and some could be draft day smoke and mirrors...but no, that never happens.

 

[tsteele316]

Corroborating evidence other than people reporting who actually talk to Heckert and Shurmer? No, but who would talk to the coach and GM about personnel decisions? I mean, that's crazy talk. And as for Lerner "offering his opinion", could that be to H&H, or would that have to be directly to tsteele to count?

BTW I didn't accept or dispute anything the radio report said...of course some of it is likely true, and some could be draft day smoke and mirrors...but no, that never happens.

randy lerner has said point blank he doesn't meddle. everyone involved laughed at the notion that he was involved. every browns insider has rebuffed the article. the same reporting entity had to retract a subsequent report on the browns hours later because it was false.

so, you're essentially asking me to prove a negative. you want evidence of something that doesn't exist, because the word of the owner and everyone involved doesn't fit your agenda.

so, once again, i choose to believe media reports that have some form of corroborating evidence. this one doesn't fit the bill.

 

[Bucklion]

Well whatever Lerner's involvement or lack thereof, in any event the draft is over, and it's time to wait and see who shows up in shape and ready to play in the fall. What's done is done. It's H&H's asses on the line, so they had better know what they are doing. I'll be surprised if Hughes ever plays. The rest I guess we'll see. I doubt McCoy gets traded because no team with a brain will give up anything for him.