Cleveland Browns (2008 Season)

[LitlBuck]

Excellent value pick to replace Joe next year

Cleveland.com


Paul Hubbard | 19 | WR
Rec Yards TD
14 305 0

Height: 6-4 Class-Eligibility: GS-Sr
Weight: 213 Born: 6/12/1985
Birthplace: Colorado Springs, CO

Scouting Report
Hubbard is a tall, athletic receiver that could potentially translate well to the next level. The biggest factor holding him back right now is his work ethic and concentration on the field. He needs to improve on making catches more consistently and not just the big ones. Hubbard has average speed, but with his long strides, he can be deceptive and lull defensive backs to sleep. He uses his body well and can make the big play over defenders. Hubbard's lack of football experience could give an NFL team a blue-chip prospect they could shape and develop as they see

 

[LitlBuck]

Seventh round pick from St. Augustine

Cleveland.com
Scouting Report

Hall was named a first team All-American by D2football.com after a season in which he had seven sacks in nine games for St. Augustine's. The 6-foot-5, 238-pound Hall was the school's all-time leader in sacks (25 1/2) and was selected to play in the Cactus Bowl, where he helped himself by recording two sacks and showcasing his athleticism and smarts. Hall is not very powerful, but his great speed and all-around playmaking ability give him a chance of being drafted in the late rounds.

 

[exhawg]

Well it looks like the Browns are really expecting the improved d-line to help out the DB's. Almost time for Savage to work his post draft magic.

 

[ashlandbuck]

Don't really like the trade of next year's third for Rucker who might end up being a 3rd TE on our team. Don't get that pick, but I like the Bell pick.

This was not soley a pick for a TE spot. Although he would be a great insurance policy if Winslow goes down.
There is an obvious trend with many of these picks. Bell, Rucker and Hubbard are going to be special teamers. Savage hinted that special teams was important with this draft and three of those guys are very athletic.
Hubbard is more of an athlete than a true WR. A very obvious special team pick. Rucker was an obvious special team pick as well.
Bell could actually be fighting for some playing time on defense but more than likely he is another guy that Savage is hoping will be a special teams beast.
I like this thinking. You are not going to get every down guys with the 4th pick on. But you can get some athletes that will help on special teams

 

[Buckeyedynasty]

Ok right now looking at the draft I'm pretty pleased as long as Bell can make a good contribution to the team. Rucker could end up being a fantastic tight-end. Love the pick up of Hubbard because he provides a big target that easily bump corners out of the way if they try to go press coverage. Picking up the DL from Iowa state was ok but he's going to need some work which you'll find with any DL taken this late in the draft. Not thrilled about the 7th round pick and thought there were a lot of players better suited with the pick but oh well. If I'm GM my first 2 phone calls would be trying to bring in Jonal Saint-Dic and if undrafted Jonathan Zennon to play CB, followed by Kirk Barton to provide depth on the OL. Maybe even give Jehuu Caulkrick and Darrell Robertson a try out.

 

[aurorabuckeye13]

This was not soley a pick for a TE spot. Although he would be a great insurance policy if Winslow goes down.
There is an obvious trend with many of these picks. Bell, Rucker and Hubbard are going to be special teamers. Savage hinted that special teams was important with this draft and three of those guys are very athletic.
Hubbard is more of an athlete than a true WR. A very obvious special team pick. Rucker was an obvious special team pick as well.
Bell could actually be fighting for some playing time on defense but more than likely he is another guy that Savage is hoping will be a special teams beast.
I like this thinking. You are not going to get every down guys with the 4th pick on. But you can get some athletes that will help on special teams

I have to disagree with you on a few things in this post. First of all, the more I think about it, the more I can see why Rucker was picked. He is a great recieving threat from the TE position, so he can be put on the field with Winslow and create some big matchup problems. Also Winslow's health is questionable and Heiden is getting up there in age. I don't see him making an impact of special teams because he's not a physical player.

I also disagree with your statement saying that you are not going to get every down guys with the 4th pick on. You take a look at the Colt's starters from last year... Gary Brackett went undrafted, Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, and 4 out of their 5 offensive linemen were drafted in the 4th round or later. You look at the Patriots, Tom Brady of course was a 6th rounder, Welker was undrafted, 2 of their starting linemen were 4th round or later, plus two of their linebackers and both of their safetys including Rodney Harrison were 4th round or later. I could come up with examples all day, but the point is, general managers almost never draft a guy and say I'm drafting this guy to be a special teamer. That only happens with long snappers, kickers and return men. Otherwise, propects are drafted in the 4th or later to be just that... prospects. Guys who teams can develop into starters or part time starters. That's what they are doing with Bell... they got him hoping that he will replace Andra Davis at some point, Rucker for insurance if Winslow gets hurt, and the big defensive lineman from Iowa State to provide depth on the D-line. The guy in the 7th was drafted as a developmental edge rusher, who has athleticism, and hopefully will be coachable enough to become a starter or a third down rush end. Hubbard is another guy who they hope to bring in and help him to fully realize his potential as a reciever, something he did not do at Wisconsin.

So for those looking for a summarry of what I just said, basically teams draft beyond the fourth round based on potential. Any prospect drafted could either be a hit or a miss. The biggest difference between rounds 1-3 and 4-7 in the draft, is that more hits come in those first three rounds. Brandon McDonald is fighting for a starting job this year, and Leon Williams will compete for playing time with Andra Davis. Those guys both came in the later rounds, and Savage is looking to get guys more like them or better with his picks today.

 

[MUBuck]

I have to disagree with you on a few things in this post. First of all, the more I think about it, the more I can see why Rucker was picked. He is a great recieving threat from the TE position, so he can be put on the field with Winslow and create some big matchup problems. Also Winslow's health is questionable and Heiden is getting up there in age. I don't see him making an impact of special teams because he's not a physical player.

I also disagree with your statement saying that you are not going to get every down guys with the 4th pick on. You take a look at the Colt's starters from last year... Gary Brackett went undrafted, Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, and 4 out of their 5 offensive linemen were drafted in the 4th round or later. You look at the Patriots, Tom Brady of course was a 6th rounder, Welker was undrafted, 2 of their starting linemen were 4th round or later, plus two of their linebackers and both of their safetys including Rodney Harrison were 4th round or later. I could come up with examples all day, but the point is, general managers almost never draft a guy and say I'm drafting this guy to be a special teamer. That only happens with long snappers, kickers and return men. Otherwise, propects are drafted in the 4th or later to be just that... prospects. Guys who teams can develop into starters or part time starters. That's what they are doing with Bell... they got him hoping that he will replace Andra Davis at some point, Rucker for insurance if Winslow gets hurt, and the big defensive lineman from Iowa State to provide depth on the D-line. The guy in the 7th was drafted as a developmental edge rusher, who has athleticism, and hopefully will be coachable enough to become a starter or a third down rush end. Hubbard is another guy who they hope to bring in and help him to fully realize his potential as a reciever, something he did not do at Wisconsin.

So for those looking for a summarry of what I just said, basically teams draft beyond the fourth round based on potential. Any prospect drafted could either be a hit or a miss. The biggest difference between rounds 1-3 and 4-7 in the draft, is that more hits come in those first three rounds. Brandon McDonald is fighting for a starting job this year, and Leon Williams will compete for playing time with Andra Davis. Those guys both came in the later rounds, and Savage is looking to get guys more like them or better with his picks today.

I agree with you. Hubbard from Wisconsin will surely play special teams, but I don't think he's an obvious special teams pick. He's a kid who was a Big Ten long jump champ who probably never fully committed to football. He's big, fast, and athletic. Why not take a flier on a kid like that with limited experience? I do agree with ashland about getting guys who can come in and play special teams though. If we take a couple of linemen in the late rounds and they don't pan out, we cut them. If we take a couple of big, strong, athletic guys, they can still perform on special teams. I like what we did with the limited picks.

 

[LitlBuck]

Ok right now looking at the draft I'm pretty pleased as long as Bell can make a good contribution to the team. Rucker could end up being a fantastic tight-end. Love the pick up of Hubbard because he provides a big target that easily bump corners out of the way if they try to go press coverage. Picking up the DL from Iowa state was ok but he's going to need some work which you'll find with any DL taken this late in the draft. Not thrilled about the 7th round pick and thought there were a lot of players better suited with the pick but oh well. If I'm GM my first 2 phone calls would be trying to bring in Jonal Saint-Dic and if undrafted Jonathan Zennon to play CB, followed by Kirk Barton to provide depth on the OL. Maybe even give Jehuu Caulkrick and Darrell Robertson a try out.

Agree with most of what you have said above and disagree very much with ashlandbuck. These guys were not brought in to play special teams! Maybe in the short-term, next season, but certainly not in the long run. Bell was one name that was mentioned on Friday by the Browns beat reporter saying that Savage was very interested in him. They need a run stuffing linebacker with some speed and that is Bell. He probably will back up on the inside this year but wouldn't be surprised to see him vie for some playing time the following season. He provides depth right now at that position. I think the Browns wanted him and Savage was afraid that someone was going to get him and that is the reason he had to trade up. You always have to give something to get something and if they build depth at positions they can start to pileup picks in coming years.

With Heiden having minor surgery last week, I think the Browns saw a need for another TE. Even though Rucker is not a prototype NFL TE, he runs great routes and as decent speed for a guy his size. Another case of getting more depth at another position. Savage usually does take the best player available so in addition to this being a need you have to trust the GM.

The DT from Iowa State brings more depth to the DL. He is not ready now but in the next few years he might be a very good NG in the 3-4. More depth.

Joe J. is not getting any younger and there is a need for a slot receiver and Hubbard has the size to play that position and he played in a rugged conference. This also could be the beginning of the end for Wilson who did not see much time last year. Wilson is also not a slot receiver but more of a wideout and with the addition of Stallworth he might be gone this season.

Hall from St. Augustine's is not ready for the NFL this season but if he could add about 20-25 pounds over the next year he might be able to fill the position as an outside pass rusher since he is 6'5" and has good speed. Another case of adding depth where it is needed.

Some guys do not like giving up picks in next year's draft but as I have stated if you can add depth to your team this year you will be able to start adding picks in following years plus I would rather win sooner than later. In addition, all of these guys were have a years experience of being on an NFL roster unlike players who would be drafted next year. I would have liked to see a CB taken but hopefully we can find some backups when teams start making their cuts during camp. Most of you know that I have not backed Savage in all of his moves but I agree with what he did this year with limited quantity. Let the games begin!

 

[ashlandbuck]

Ok....Then I guess Phil Savage was full of shit when he said specifically that they were looking for an athletic TE to push Darnell Dinkens and be a special teams leader....Sheez......You guys are speculating without any knowledge what was said. He said special teams was going to be a real focus this year in the draft. Hubbard, Rucker and to some extent Bell could all make your special teams much better.

If coaches and GM's were thinking that their 4 thru 7th round picks were going to be impact players or immediate starters than wouldn't it make sense that they would be drafted higher? These picks are always considered projects or special team players. Sure there are case where the later round guys surprise and end up being starters. You named several.
Of course T Brady is the poster boy for it. But the running joke concerning Brady is that if these guys in N. England were so smart in drafting Brady and if they knew he was a future hall of famer, why didn't they draft him ealier? I hope you can see the obvious point I'm making here.

 

[LitlBuck]

Ok....Then I guess Phil Savage was full of shit when he said specifically that they were looking for an athletic TE to push Darnell Dinkens and be a special teams leader....Sheez......You guys are speculating without any knowledge what was said. He said special teams was going to be a real focus this year in the draft. Hubbard, Rucker and to some extent Bell could all make your special teams much better.

Alright, all of those dumb asses will get off of this thread since you are the expert and was in the war room. FYI Dinkins played some TE on the field last year. He just did not play special teams. He actually lined up sometimes.
None of us said that these guys were great to come in as starters next year but there is always a possibility that one or two might become starters by the beginning of the season. Almost all rookies who are drafted, except for maybe first rounders, you see do play special teams but you take a chance with a quality player. Look what Butch Davis did to Winslow by making him play special teams.

Where were you before the draft with all of this knowledge

 

[ashlandbuck]

Cleveland.com


Paul Hubbard | 19 | WR
Rec Yards TD
14 305 0

Height: 6-4 Class-Eligibility: GS-Sr
Weight: 213 Born: 6/12/1985
Birthplace: Colorado Springs, CO

Scouting Report
. Hubbard's lack of football experience could give an NFL team a blue-chip prospect they could shape and develop as they see

My point is made concerning later round picks. This is the way most if not all are viewed.

 

[ashlandbuck]

Almost all rookies who are drafted, except for maybe first rounders, you see do play special teams but you take a chance with a quality player. Look what Butch Davis did to Winslow by making him play special teams.

Where were you before the draft with all of this knowledge

Wow....ok....I guess all interior lineman and QB's taken later play special teams too.
Athletes are going to be special teamers. That is exactly what the Browns drafted in Hubbard, Rucker and Bell.

Yes, Davis got Winslow hurt and he missed almost an entire season due to his special teams play.

My knowledge comes from hours of studying,listening,watching and learning.....before I use the keyboard.

 

[LitlBuck]

My point is made concerning later round picks. This is the way most if not all are viewed.

That is just a scouting report that you are showing. It does not mean that every player chosen after round x is a special-teams player and will not see the playing field in a normal position. Bell, Hubbard, and Rucker might see some playing time other than just on special teams. Your point is understood and well taken but it is not cast in concrete.

 

[LitlBuck]

Wow....ok....I guess all interior lineman and QB's taken later play special teams too..

:crazy:

 

[Buckeyedynasty]

Wow this thread just got pretty entertaining. Ok ashland, your point is well taken. If these players don't make an immediate impact in the depth chart than they hopefully will be good special teams players for the Browns.

In recent news it looks like the Browns have signed an UDFA QB out of Columbia university. I didn't get this info. by being an insider or through hours of study though so you may not want to listen to me. I did however look it up on the internet.

We also inked Kicker Jason Reda. WTF???

Also unfortunately the Vikings already picked up J Lehman. I think he at the very least would be a hell of a special teams player.