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Chris Holtmann (ex-tOSU Bball coach, HC at DePaul)

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Mike80 said:
That "global brand" you're speaking of is nearly entirely due to football and the proliferation of TV rights in that same 20 years.

This isn't Duke, UNC or Kansas. It's not a place that has created iconic NBA players. Outside of the state of Ohio, you don't have kids, especially elite kids, wanting to go to Ohio State. Until that changes, this is what that program is going to be.

Holtmann, IMO, has the program exactly where his actual boss wants it to be - competitive in the Big Ten, top-20/25ish nationally and a perennial tournament team.
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You’re right, which proves my resources point….that paradigm shift is exactly why you don’t have to have Duke, Carolina, or Kansas history to build a juggernaut.

You're also right about Gene Smith’s expectations, which I clearly called out in my original posting. At the end of the day his expectations being met ultimately is all that matters.

But I have to push back on the OOS players. Oden, Turner, and Russell were all OOS…and with the advantages of Columbus it should be able to sell easier Durham, CH, and Lawrence.
 
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Mike80 said:
Holtmann, IMO, has the program exactly where his actual boss wants it to be - competitive in the Big Ten, top-20/25ish nationally and a perennial tournament team.
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Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations. Maybe Gene just doesn't want to admit he didn't do as good a job as he thinks he did. I have a hard time believing the school that has the best NIL deals for players shouldn't be pulling multiple top-50 recruits every year.
 
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jakenick06 said:
You’re right, which proves my resources point….that paradigm shift is exactly why you don’t have to have Duke, Carolina, or Kansas history to build a juggernaut.
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Except those teams don't HAVE a football empire sitting over them which and will always have clear priority.

You're also right about Gene Smith’s expectations, which I clearly called out in my original posting. At the end of the day his expectations being met ultimately is all that matters.
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Again. Football school. It is what it is.

But I have to push back on the OOS players. Oden, Turner, and Russell were all OOS…and with the advantages of Columbus it should be able to sell easier Durham, CH, and Lawrence.
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Push back all you want - those 3 weren't coming to Ohio State until Matta arrived. The rest of it is also up for debate as the city is rarely, if ever, in consideration in any of the 4 spots unless you're going after local kids. Central Ohio just doesn't produce the basketball players other regions do.
 
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DZ83CK said:
Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations. Maybe Gene just doesn't want to admit he didn't do as good a job as he thinks he did. I have a hard time believing the school that has the best NIL deals for players shouldn't be pulling multiple top-50 recruits every year.
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“If you're going to say what you want to say, you're going to hear what you don't want to hear.”

With notable exceptions, what you've seen since, well, forever, is what this program is going to be. Football is king. That's not going to change. Call is soft bigotry if you want, but to do so just ignores reality.
 
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Mike80 said:
Except those teams don't HAVE a football empire sitting over them which and will always have clear priority.



Again. Football school. It is what it is.



Push back all you want - those 3 weren't coming to Ohio State until Matta arrived. The rest of it is also up for debate as the city is rarely, if ever, in consideration in any of the 4 spots unless you're going after local kids. Central Ohio just doesn't produce the basketball players other regions do.
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The football school argument makes it that much better. You get all of the advantages with less visibility and pressure. You get to approach each recruit swinging Ohio St dick without the absolute Armageddon that comes with ONLY winning 80% of your games. You SHOULD be able to bring in any OOS recruit you like with all of the advantages.

This football school line of thinking is so dated. You can be a football school AND a basketball school with the right coach…and not have to apologize for it.
 
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To get to the next level, Holt would need to land a top 10 recruit (mainly out of state) most years.
That’s the bar a new coach would need to meet. It’s the bar that Thad was able to hit for a few years.
 
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jakenick06 said:
The football school argument makes it that much better. You get all of the advantages with less visibility and pressure. You get to approach each recruit swinging Ohio St dick without the absolute Armageddon that comes with ONLY winning 80% of your games. You SHOULD be able to bring in any OOS recruit you like with all of the advantages.

This football school line of thinking is so dated. You can be a football school AND a basketball school with the right coach…and not have to apologize for it.
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How many elite basketball talents even look at Ohio State? Even during the Matta era?

Let's stay in reality here. Ohio State is what it is. If Gene Smith or the administration wanted it to be different, they would make a change. But they won't. Why? For all the reasons I stated.
 
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One last point and I'll let the hand-wringers continue...

Ohio State has, historically, won 61.5% of its game all time.

Since joining the Big Ten in 1917, it has 22 Big Ten titles in 115 seasons. It has won 5 since Thad Matta came to the school. Since the year 2002, Ohio State has won 474 games out of 680 total games. That's a 69;7% winning percentage.

There have been no scandals, no sanctions, none of that. Enjoy the ride people. This is easily the best era of Ohio state basketball ever and they are mostly doing it by not recruiting one and dones and keeping most of the best Ohio players home.
 
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It's like some people have never watched college basketball before. Good teams have bad losses to mediocre/bad teams all the time. Yeah, it's frustrating, but jesus....this isn't football guys. You are going to lose dumb games and that's okay because very team loses dumb games.
 
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Mike80 said:
:lol:
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What concerns are you talking about? I gave a clearly reasoned opinion and stated so explicitly.

And we weren’t all but eliminated from the B1G reg season title after Thursday’s game, which is the expectation I delineated in my opinion. Besides, when does it matter when I say it? If Day starts out 0-6 next season and wins game 7, would it invalidate an opinion that says he’s not met expectations bc he won that game?
 
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