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Chris Holtmann (ex-tOSU Bball coach, HC at DePaul)

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HireJeffBoals said:
Guess we better settle for average then
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Top 25 yearly =/= average, especially when you consider there are what 300+ teams?

It is (also) essentially the program's historical norm too by the way other than brief periods under Matta. Holtmann has them competitive in an era of the Big Ten in basketball that is literally the most competitive ever. He's not going anywhere.
 
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Mike80 said:
Top 25 yearly =/= average, especially when you consider there are what 300+ teams?

It is (also) essentially the program's historical norm too by the way other than brief periods under Matta. Holtmann has them competitive in an era of the Big Ten in basketball that is literally the most competitive ever. He's not going anywhere.
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Why even have a basketball program if we never want to be better? I don't get it
 
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Mike80 said:
Top 25 yearly =/= average, especially when you consider there are what 300+ teams?

It is (also) essentially the program's historical norm too by the way other than brief periods under Matta. Holtmann has them competitive in an era of the Big Ten in basketball that is literally the most competitive ever. He's not going anywhere.
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Matta era proves the historical norm is an underachievement. Ohio St shouldn’t settle for it’s historical norm.
 
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Not going to get into the FIRE HOLTMANN argument, but I will say that Matta's great seasons were always based on an All-American player who could put a team on his back and carry them through the tournament (Oden, Turner, Sullinger), and when he didn't have that truly special player, he performed roughly as well as Holtmann. So the question in my mind isn't who's the better coach. It's can Holtmann get the special guy (not Harbaugh) to Columbus. FWIW, my opinion is that Liddell is very good, but he's not the Oden/Turner/Sullinger type who can carry a team this time of year.
 
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Mike80 said:
No, the Matta era shows that it was an aberration from the norm. Look what happened towards the end of his era.
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You’re right, and what I was trying to say wasn’t clear.

In the last 20 years Ohio St has become global brand that’s nearly 2nd to none. That brand, coupled with the near fiscal superiority, elevated academic profile, and being a state flagship university in a fertile recruiting state located in the 14th largest city in the country has allowed the program to outgrow its historical norms. Matta was able to come in and help push upward, but he couldn’t maintain for a myriad of reasons…..none of which is due to regression toward the mean IMO.
 
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HireJeffBoals said:
Right I'd rather go for broke chasing Big Ten titles than say "I'm happy with 5th place every year"
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Good point. College basketball is cyclical. If your teams are never peaking and you're never winning a B1G championship after several seasons at OSU, you're not doing it quite right. Downturns happen when multiple key guys unexpectedly leave early, but this usually doesn't happen. You've got to be building towards a peak and not just avoiding a low floor and running the hamster wheel all the time. I think the guard recruiting in particular has been lacking in terms of the frequency of finding the scorers and leaders the team needs. CH needs to be better at finding more quality players and not just having a team with a couple leaders and a bunch of role players. I like CH, but he needs to improve some things.
 
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jakenick06 said:
You’re right, and what I was trying to say wasn’t clear.

In the last 20 years Ohio St has become global brand that’s nearly 2nd to none. That brand, coupled with the near fiscal superiority, elevated academic profile, and being a state flagship university in a fertile recruiting state located in the 14th largest city in the country has allowed the program to outgrow its historical norms. Matta was able to come in and help push upward, but he couldn’t maintain for a myriad of reasons…..none of which is due to regression toward the mean IMO.
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That "global brand" you're speaking of is nearly entirely due to football and the proliferation of TV rights in that same 20 years.

This isn't Duke, UNC or Kansas. It's not a place that has created iconic NBA players. Outside of the state of Ohio, you don't have kids, especially elite kids, wanting to go to Ohio State. Until that changes, this is what that program is going to be.

Holtmann, IMO, has the program exactly where his actual boss wants it to be - competitive in the Big Ten, top-20/25ish nationally and a perennial tournament team.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Not going to get into the FIRE HOLTMANN argument, but I will say that Matta's great seasons were always based on an All-American player who could put a team on his back and carry them through the tournament (Oden, Turner, Sullinger), and when he didn't have that truly special player, he performed roughly as well as Holtmann. So the question in my mind isn't who's the better coach. It's can Holtmann get the special guy (not Harbaugh) to Columbus. FWIW, my opinion is that Liddell is very good, but he's not the Oden/Turner/Sullinger type who can carry a team this time of year.
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EJ right now is better than Deshaun Thomas was, and he led the 2013 team to a BTT victory and the Elite 8. The top five 2013 players other than DT were clearly better than the group of 5 around EJ now, and I honestly wouldn't prefer this year's "others" even with Towns and Sueing to those of the 2013 team. Leadership, quickness, energy and effort were far better on that team than this one. The top player on this team is plenty good enough. It's the supporting cast that needs shoring up.
 
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