Charlie Weis (ex-Kansas HC, ex-Fla OC, Notre Dame legend, UnDecided Schematic Advantage)

[MililaniBuckeye]

If it's not in the contract...

Right...every action you do at work has to be spelled out in writing.

The "contract" that was between him and ND was that ND would pay for his education expenses in turn for his playing football for them...pretty simple. When he decided he was jerked around (regardless if he was or wasn't correct in his perception of treatment) he left and terminated his part of the deal, and Notre Dame should do the same.

By your reasoning, if you should quit your job your former employer should be able to prevent you from getting paid at your next job. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

 

[tibor75]

Right...every action you do at work has to be spelled out in writing.

The "contract" that was between him and ND was that ND would pay for his education expenses in turn for his playing football for them...pretty simple. When he decided he was jerked around (regardless if he was or wasn't correct in his perception of treatment) he left and terminated his part of the deal, and Notre Dame should do the same.

By your reasoning, if you should quit your job your former employer should be able to prevent you from getting paid at your next job. Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

Uh, nobody is being paid. It's called a scholarship and nobody can hold 2 scholarships at 2 different universities at the same time.

Please stop comparing this to an employment situation because these players/athletes aren't employed. If the NCAA gives ND the right to the scholarship, they are right to keep it. Maybe the NCAA should change the rule. heck, there are other rules I'd change before this one (i.e. if a coach transfers/quits, the player should be allowed to leave w/o penalty)

ND should keep the scholarship. It's too late for them to find somebody else to fill it. This crybaby should have quit in the off-season or after this season ends. Or maybe he should have asked Weis first. Serves him right for not.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I'm with Thump, it's pretty clear this LordJeffBuck character has no idea how to deal with the various pressures of recruiting in an internet chat board context.

Trust the coaches, LJB.

 

[jwinslow]

Waaa I was lied to Waaa

Ah yes, the trusty 2 year old approach.

Welcome to the wonderful world of college recruiting.

So because he fell for the lie, he has to live with it for 4-5 years?

And please tell me how Weis lied to his kid? By the way he played QB, Weis was correct to try and get him to change positions.

You honestly don't think Tressel and about every other coach in the game change their minds regarding players once they come to camp and they see up close how they perform? There is only so much you can learn via videotape.

How do you know Weis changed his mind?

ND should keep the scholarship. It's too late for them to find somebody else to fill it.

False. It's september, unless you don't understand recruiting very well. Robiskie, DWashington, Laurinaitis and many others were offered 2-4 months after september.

This crybaby should have quit in the off-season or after this season ends. Or maybe he should have asked Weis first. Serves him right for not.

He was thinking about transferring to Tennessee, so Weis:

Telling him it was an open QB job when Weis stated it was Claussen's since the Spring is lying.

 

[ulukinatme]

For all those NDers that say Charlie was left with NOTHING after Ty's "awful" recruiting, what was Ty left with? Was it not Ty that gave them Quinn, Smardzjia, Walker and McKnight on offense for Weis to work with. He also had Lawrence Wilson at DE, until they fired Ty. How great were Bob Davie's kids when Ty took over. I'd be hard pressed ot believe Ty had more to work with than Charlie.

Davies actually recruited McKnight, he stayed as a 5th year senior because of a medical redshirt in '05. Ty gave Weis Smardzija, but Jeff was a bench warmer until Weis got him, I think he had all of one catch under Ty's coaching. Walker turned out alright under Ty, but his numbers Sophomore/Junior year weren't as good as they could of been, but the O-Line hasn't been getting any better either. Brady was pretty average till Weis came in, the offense wasn't as bad as it is now, but it was pretty ugly to watch under Ty. Games were won on Defense and Special Teams more often than not, as oppose to the last two years.
As far as who received more talent, I think Ty actually had the benefit here. He had Julius Jones, Ryan Grant, both 1000 yard rushers (Jones sat out a year for grades). Both coaches had Stovall and McKnight, although both didn't get serious numbers till Weis came in. Both coaches also had Anthony Fasano. Ty may have had David Givens his first year too, not sure. The QB situation wasn't good, but thats partly a result of Ty switching to the West Coast offense. He would have had Arnaz Battle at QB if they didn't switch to West Coast, Arnaz was originally recruited for the Option, he now starts at WR for the 49ers. Ty got some pretty nice defensive guys from Davies too, like Justin Tuck.
The O-line was more solid when Ty took over and slowly degraded, Ty's recruiting hurt the O-line big time. If you look at the 2003 class, which would have been seniors this year, more than half the class has LEFT. Of the remaining players, only two start I think, one being Crum on defense. Thats one of the reasons theres so many freshmen and sophomores starting, which is accouting for a lack of experience on offense.
As far as the ND fans that are bitching about this season, its kinda sad. We knew going in this was going to be an ugly year, theres a big lack of leadership on the field, mostly on offense anyway. I expect the O-line to get better by next year, a new O-line coach may be required otherwise because the talent is coming in at those positions. I'll still be going to games to cheer, but I'm not expecting miracles, just improvements.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Wait... if he was going to transfer to Tenny, then Thump's point about recruiting as it relates to the Jones situation must be underinformed....

I change my mind. I'm with LJB now.

 

[Dryden]

This thread has reaffirmed two things about BP for me:

1) Everybody hates Charlie Weis
2) Everybody disagrees with tibor

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Uh, nobody is being paid. It's called a scholarship and nobody can hold 2 scholarships at 2 different universities at the same time.

Please stop comparing this to an employment situation because these players/athletes aren't employed...

Technically, he's not getting a paycheck, but he's getting about $30,000 a year (tuition, room/board, books, stipends, etc.) in educational "benefits" that non-scholarship students don't. So, yeah, he indeed is getting "paid"...

...If the NCAA gives ND the right to the scholarship, they are right to keep it. Maybe the NCAA should change the rule. heck, there are other rules I'd change before this one (i.e. if a coach transfers/quits, the player should be allowed to leave w/o penalty).

ND should keep the scholarship. It's too late for them to find somebody else to fill it. This crybaby should have quit in the off-season or after this season ends. Or maybe he should have asked Weis first. Serves him right for not.

What good does it do Notre Dame to "keep" the scholarship if they can't use it on someone else? None, other than holding that over other players' heads as a threat to keep them from bailing.

 

[tibor75]

I'm not talking about scholarships for next year. I'm talking about for right now. There is nobody that can play right now that Weis can use the scholarship for. I guess WEis could free up the scholarship and then give it to a walk-on, but why should he? That scholarship is for Jones for this year.

This kid agreed (by staying on he agreed) to stay put for the year and he should honor that committment. He had his chance at QB and looked like complete crap. Too bad, that's how it works. Go to the bench, kid.

 

[Thump]

None, other than holding that over other players' heads as a threat to keep them from bailing.

Ding , ding, ding.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

This kid agreed (by staying on he agreed) to stay put for the year and he should honor that committment. He had his chance at QB and looked like complete crap. Too bad, that's how it works. Go to the bench, kid.

Clausen has looked like shit, also...he really hasn't "outplayed" Jones, but rather was The Hut's Golden Boy from day one and Fat Bastard lied to and deceived Jones about it.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

FWIW, I have no particular problem with the benching. I just think they should let him out of the Schollie now that he's gone.

 

[tibor75]

What good does it do Notre Dame to "keep" the scholarship if they can't use it on someone else? None, other than holding that over other players' heads as a threat to keep them from bailing.

Yep. And hopefully the next selfish idiot who decides to leave the team in the middle of the year learns it.

Has any other OSU player transferred and left the way this Jones kid did? If not, why are you defending him when it's clear that players typically leave/transfer from teams in a more responsible fashion?

 

[jwinslow]

I'm not talking about scholarships for next year. I'm talking about for right now. There is nobody that can play right now that Weis can use the scholarship for. I guess WEis could free up the scholarship and then give it to a walk-on, but why should he? That scholarship is for Jones for this year.

This kid agreed (by staying on he agreed) to stay put for the year and he should honor that committment.

Who would Weis have picked up had Jones transferred this offseason? I'd imagine a walkon.

Either way, there was almost no chance of Weis replacing a player like Jones this offseason.

He had his chance at QB and looked like complete crap. Too bad, that's how it works. Go to the bench, kid.

Funny, Clausen was a disaster too. Where's his bench? That's right, he was the favorite all along.

It wasn't a big secret that Clausen was coming to save ND. If you're Weis, why lie to Jones about your intentions to have Clausen start? Especially if you eventually hope to make Jones work directly with Clausen as one of his WR targets?

 

[Saw31]

Davies actually recruited McKnight, he stayed as a 5th year senior because of a medical redshirt in '05. Ty gave Weis Smardzija, but Jeff was a bench warmer until Weis got him, I think he had all of one catch under Ty's coaching. Walker turned out alright under Ty, but his numbers Sophomore/Junior year weren't as good as they could of been, but the O-Line hasn't been getting any better either. Brady was pretty average till Weis came in, the offense wasn't as bad as it is now, but it was pretty ugly to watch under Ty. Games were won on Defense and Special Teams more often than not, as oppose to the last two years.
As far as who received more talent, I think Ty actually had the benefit here. He had Julius Jones, Ryan Grant, both 1000 yard rushers (Jones sat out a year for grades). Both coaches had Stovall and McKnight, although both didn't get serious numbers till Weis came in. Both coaches also had Anthony Fasano. Ty may have had David Givens his first year too, not sure. The QB situation wasn't good, but thats partly a result of Ty switching to the West Coast offense. He would have had Arnaz Battle at QB if they didn't switch to West Coast, Arnaz was originally recruited for the Option, he now starts at WR for the 49ers. Ty got some pretty nice defensive guys from Davies too, like Justin Tuck.
The O-line was more solid when Ty took over and slowly degraded, Ty's recruiting hurt the O-line big time. If you look at the 2003 class, which would have been seniors this year, more than half the class has LEFT. Of the remaining players, only two start I think, one being Crum on defense. Thats one of the reasons theres so many freshmen and sophomores starting, which is accouting for a lack of experience on offense.
As far as the ND fans that are bitching about this season, its kinda sad. We knew going in this was going to be an ugly year, theres a big lack of leadership on the field, mostly on offense anyway. I expect the O-line to get better by next year, a new O-line coach may be required otherwise because the talent is coming in at those positions. I'll still be going to games to cheer, but I'm not expecting miracles, just improvements.

What I read here is that all these players got better as they got older. Weis' contributions to that improvement is assumed by Domers. I'm not so sure you can make that assumption. Players tend to get better as they get older. That is a natural progression for most players. The only real measure of Weis' competence is this years results. NoD is not just the worst D1a team, but they are the worst by a lot. They can't even snap the ball correctly. There is "bad", and then there is "Notre Dame bad"...They are on a whole new level of bad. You can't explain all that away with "Ty's recruiting blah blah blah"...