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Charlie Weis (ex-Kansas HC, ex-Fla OC, Notre Dame legend, UnDecided Schematic Advantage)

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;935137; said:
Actually, if you were a NoD fan, you'd be making excuses and arguing how Weis' doing so is genius and will pay ample dividends later..... like ... next year.
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I read some of the comments following the Fox Sports article linked a few pages ago, and I can't believe that some domers are still banging the 'Ty's recruits' drum. I can't wait to hear their excuses next year.
 
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FCollinsBuckeye;935141; said:
I can't wait to hear their excuses next year.
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We would have had a better recruiting class this year if the Notre Dame haters hadn't been on Charlie's back. But since everybody hates Notre Dame and got in all the kids' ears before signing day, our #1 recruiting class didn't pan out like it should have because of all the decommits.
 
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FCollinsBuckeye;935141; said:
I read some of the comments following the Fox Sports article linked a few pages ago, and I can't believe that some domers are still banging the 'Ty's recruits' drum. I can't wait to hear their excuses next year.
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Exactly.... as has been pointed out.... every school faces losses.. sometimes HUGE losses.... and yet, they can field a team which can put the ball in the EZ on occasion.

It's ridiculous to argue on the one hand "The problem is Ty's recruits" and then fall in to "Well, we lost 7 starters, of course we're going to struggle" What the fuck? Those 7 starters were Ty's guys.... I thought they were supposed to suck in comparison to the all world studs Fatty C is bringing in.

Fact is, ND made an awful hire. Weis could very well be an offensive genius... Let's even for the sake of argument say he is.... that doesn't mean the guy can teach. From the display this season, I'd say it's pretty damn clear he does something wrong. There is simply no excuse that a "traditional power" like ND sucks this bad, other than coaching errors. They should be able to gain a positive yard rushing, on talent alone. They should be able to push the ball in to the EZ when PSU given them the ball at the PSU 15, or whatever it was.... on talent alone. These guys cant.
 
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Thump said:
We'll agree to disagree b/c I see both sides of the argument. But I know the fact that this involves a coach and program that we hate that it may lead to people automatically jumping on the player's side.

Would we have the same opinion if it was, say, SMU's QB?
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on the same token, the only reason you're sticking up for NA is because it's the opposite of what everybody else would do. Would YOU have the same opinion if it was SMU?
 
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If he were released, would this season count as Jones' 1 year sit out, since he already played for ND? Or would he have to sit out 08 as well?
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I think the actual rule reads that you have to be enrolled at another school for a year. I also read that the reason he did what he did when he did it was to meet NIUs deadline for enrollment. There might be some technicality that would cause him to miss the first two or three games - but my guess is that he can play next season. Not sure I have ever heard of a kid doing it quite like this before.

Fact is, ND made an awful hire.
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But that wasn't their big mistake. Can you imagine being the AD who has to justify his 10 year contract? Those contracts are not that uncommon, but NEVER for a coach who had not coached at the college level - or even been a head coach at any level.

Only comparable mistake I can remember was the University that signed a coach right out of HS to a four year contract. Guy named Faust. Anybody recall the school?

I keep reading this thread for the same reason I look at a car wreck on the highway. I realize that someone is suffering, but I just have to catch a glimpse.
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Same here - except I have never had the urge to pee on a car crash victim.

I was just over at an ND board and the newest thread had this title:

"Which teams in the country would be undefeated if they had played NDs first three games?"

The better question, of course, is which team would have given up 102 points to those teams. The Domes are also forgetting that outside of their games versus ND those three teams are playing .500 ball for the season.
 
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Thump;935064; said:
We'll agree to disagree b/c I see both sides of the argument. But I know the fact that this involves a coach and program that we hate that it may lead to people automatically jumping on the player's side.

Would we have the same opinion if it was, say, SMU's QB?
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SMU is not ND. They have already been branded with a lack of integrity...SMU does not promote itself as a beacon of morality to which all other schools should rise.

Poor choice for an example.

If a tOSU player left under the same situation and JT refused to release him, I would certainly have the same criticism.

Somehow though, I don't see that situation happening...that is the difference.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;935155; said:
Fact is, ND made an awful hire. Weis could very well be an offensive genius... Let's even for the sake of argument say he is.... that doesn't mean the guy can teach. From the display this season, I'd say it's pretty damn clear he does something wrong. There is simply no excuse that a "traditional power" like ND sucks this bad, other than coaching errors. They should be able to gain a positive yard rushing, on talent alone. They should be able to push the ball in to the EZ when PSU given them the ball at the PSU 15, or whatever it was.... on talent alone. These guys cant.
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This pretty much sums up my thoughts since the day he was hired. College coaching has a lot more to it than being an NFL coordinator. He has to recruit, get the kids to buy into his system, keep his kids focused and adjust his game plan for every recruiting class. He's survived off of Brady Quinn, which made him look like a genius, where in reality they were living off of what Ty had built.

Yet they saw these big rings on that fat hand of his and thought they had a good hire there. The guy didn't even play football at ND, yet somehow this was "the guy." Now as his talent comes in people are starting to see the damage he's done to that program, I never thought I would see a coach come that would make Notre Dame fans miss Bob Davie.

If he's truly this "genius" people speak of he should have been making adjustments, but there's no effort on the field. The players have obviously given up, they aren't trying, at this point they have to be losing potential recruits to their football program.

So they got a "Notre Dame" guy that may very well put their program into such a mess that it could take 10 years to fix, good job on getting rid of Ty Willingham.
 
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FCollinsBuckeye;935141; said:
I read some of the comments following the Fox Sports article linked a few pages ago, and I can't believe that some domers are still banging the 'Ty's recruits' drum. I can't wait to hear their excuses next year.
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Just counter it by pointing to successful teams that have their younger players making a contribution to that success (Ohio State, Oklahoma, Florida).

I did that the other day to one of the more delusional Domers at work and I havent' seen him since :biggrin:
 
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Mike80 - an even better counter would be the turn-around PC performed at 'SC with the heavily depleted squad weighing him down for only one full season - he had things on the upswing and no looking back, by season 3 everyone was talking up Pac 10 wins, future Heisman winners and NC prospects.
 
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For all those NDers that say Charlie was left with NOTHING after Ty's "awful" recruiting, what was Ty left with? Was it not Ty that gave them Quinn, Smardzjia, Walker and McKnight on offense for Weis to work with. He also had Lawrence Wilson at DE, until they fired Ty. How great were Bob Davie's kids when Ty took over. I'd be hard pressed ot believe Ty had more to work with than Charlie.
 
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