Charlie Weis (ex-Kansas HC, ex-Fla OC, Notre Dame legend, UnDecided Schematic Advantage)

[Jaxbuck]

And they will.... easily.

I would say they could easily. They do have some good talented young kids and that type of team is very helter skelter. They'll probably beat a team or two they shouldn't.

 

[Best Buckeye]

I would say they could easily. They do have some good talented young kids and that type of team is very helter skelter. They'll probably beat a team or two they shouldn't.

And lose a couple to teams they should beat.

 

[Buckeye86]

And lose a couple to teams they should beat.

The only teams they should beat are Navy, Stanford, Duke, and Air Force. So, is this the year that Navy breaks the streak? (We can only hope).

 

[Jaxbuck]

And lose a couple to teams they should beat.

Yep.

See '86's comments on Navy but I could see NoD maybe clipping Purdue/MSU/BC and then spitting the bit vs Navy or someone in the Novemeber cupcake fest.

I'm sure they will look better than they did week 1 but in all honesty their goal this year should immediately turn to being 6-6 or better and going to a Bowl to get the extra practice time.

I'll be shocked if they don't start 0-3.

 

[Mike80]

The only teams they should beat are Navy, Stanford, Duke, and Air Force. So, is this the year that Navy breaks the streak? (We can only hope).

I was actually thinking that same thing this weekend watching that massacre.

Navy's passing game isn't that far behind Georgia Tech's after all

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Well FWIW the Domer boards certainly have a group of people willing to question CW's competence. They are still the minority but the honeymoon is over and it seems more than a few Domers have come down off the kool aid bender and are starting to ask questions.

They all talk a good game about knowing CW will struggle this year but lets see how they do if they lose 5 or 6 of the first 8.

At this point, they're still getting shouted down pretty quickly. It's true that they've written this season off. They're counting on Jesus Clausen to lead them to back-to-back MNCs in '08 and '09 though. If J.C. is struggling the latter half of the year, I can see a lot of them starting to jump ship.

What kills me is that they're still falling back on the "wait until Charlie develops his own players." Excuse me, but every player on that team except the seniors and 5th years were recruited and developed by Charlie, and those players are going into their third year under the genius' leadership.

 

[Jaxbuck]

At this point, they're still getting shouted down pretty quickly. It's true that they've written this season off. They're counting on Jesus Clausen to lead them to back-to-back MNCs in '08 and '09 though. If J.C. is struggling the latter half of the year, I can see a lot of them starting to jump ship.

What kills me is that they're still falling back on the "wait until Charlie develops his own players." Excuse me, but every player on that team except the seniors and 5th years were recruited and developed by Charlie, and those players are going into their third year under the genius' leadership.

Yes. ND nation as a whole has painted themselves fully in a corner. Its all Ty's fault, wait till CW develops his own etc.. well that excuse has a definite shelf life and there can be no debating the results when time expires.

If they aren't playing for a NC in '08 CW is going to have to face the music.

BTW, next time you hear them cry about how few SR's they have remind them OSU only has 7 this year. I know they have a fall back excuse from there but its fun none the less. :)

 

[Best Buckeye]

Just thought I would interject a thought. You guys are worrying too much about ND. THey are there They have always been there and they will always be there. It is true they have a young team this year but they will get better if not this year then the next, but sooner or later they will be a powerhouse again with or without CW. Face it, they have a great team with a national powerhouse program and there isn't anything any of you say or wish that will change that.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Just thought I would interject a thought. You guys are worrying too much about ND. THey are there They have always been there and they will always be there. It is true they have a young team this year but they will get better if not this year then the next, but sooner or later they will be a powerhouse again with or without CW. Face it, they have a great team with a national powerhouse program and there isn't anything any of you say or wish that will change that.

Someone probably said the same thing about Princeton back in the day. Any institution can permanantly fall if its mismanaged poorly enough.

If it were a 5 yearish type dry spell I'd agree with you. 10-15 years of truely mid major type football, 3-4 coaches and still don't have the right guy, academic entrance standards maybe a smidge too high. All that would honestly make me wonder if my team wasn't permanantly headed toward 2nd rate status if I were a Domer.

That said, the right coach can fix anyplace..especially ND. I just don't think they have him yet and your talking years to fix it once they even come to grips with the fact CW isn't the answer.

IMO the next 2 years('08 &'09) are watershed moments in the history of ND.

 

[Best Buckeye]

In 2 years they could concievably win the NC.

 

[Jaxbuck]

In 2 years they could concievably win the NC.

Yes they could, or they could still suck. Thus the watershed comment.

If they aren't a NC caliber team in 2 years they are in a lot of trouble, imo, for the reasons I stated previously.

 

[matcar]

Yes they could, or they could still suck. Thus the watershed comment.

If they aren't a NC caliber team in 2 years they are in a lot of trouble, imo, for the reasons I stated previously.

They're not in any long term trouble. Sheesh, we all love to hate ND, but it's entirely likely that they will eventually field a high quality team. Sure, we can name a Princeton example and feel good about it, but the actual percentage changes of ND become such an example are extremely low.

They have money. That's critical. All they need is a coach and recruiting staff of quality, and they can change their current pathetic ways quickly.

Let's all just enjoy their smug faltering for what it is rather than suggesting something highly unlikely such as a permanent fall from grace. Possible? Sure, Likely? Most assuredly not.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Just thought I would interject a thought. You guys are worrying too much about ND. THey are there They have always been there and they will always be there. It is true they have a young team this year but they will get better if not this year then the next, but sooner or later they will be a powerhouse again with or without CW. Face it, they have a great team with a national powerhouse program and there isn't anything any of you say or wish that will change that.

This is great BB.. it defiantely illustrates NDs fall from grace

I have NEVER looked at ND that way.. growing up in the Cooper era, when I was in the midst of it all, ND was just another team that was supposed to give the buckeyes a game.. all I remember was Eddie George out running the whole team, and if memory serves me Terry Glenn having a helluva game. I have NEVER looked at ND as a "powerhouse".. FSU, Nebraska, UF (spurrier), UM (butch davis), USC (Pete Carroll), tOSU (JT) are "powerhouses" i've witnessed and can recall in my short time on this earth. To this generation of school-goers at tOSU, ND was never a powerhouse in my mind.

Now that I have been able to research and study the buckeyes history as well as NDs, when was the last bowl game ND won? Last national title? In my lifetime I saw the buckeyes go from 0-2 lifetime against ND, to 3-2. In the meantime, they acquired a classless and incompetent coach.

ND was a powerhouse, sure. But they are NOT one now, havn't been in my lifetime (from memory, i believe they had a solid run if not a title in the early 90s) and after saturday, sure as fuck don't look ready to make the return quite yet.

 

[Oh8ch]

Yes they could, or they could still suck. Thus the watershed comment.

What is different about ND the past two years is their recruiting. It has been very solid with quality kids who even have a bit of speed. (They have two kids this year that we were hard after and could land another - something that hasn't happened in a while.)

The truth might be that we are all a little afraid of ND. We have so enjoyed the past decade that we want it to stay that way and we are a bit gun shy of anything that might change that status quo.

The good news is that CW really and truly is not the coach to turn a college program around. He does not have the discipline or the character to do it. He does not understand what it takes to win at this level.

What I really enjoy is the latest paradox from the ND fans. They are saying we need to wait until he has his own players (even though he essentially does). So they are at the same time trying to give him credit for two 9-3 seasons with Ty's kids, while letting him off the hook for a team that is more CWs than any he has yet coached.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

This is great BB.. it defiantely illustrates NDs fall from grace

I have NEVER looked at ND that way.. growing up in the Cooper era, when I was in the midst of it all, ND was just another team that was supposed to give the buckeyes a game.. all I remember was Eddie George out running the whole team, and if memory serves me Terry Glenn having a helluva game. I have NEVER looked at ND as a "powerhouse".. FSU, Nebraska, UF (spurrier), UM (butch davis), USC (Pete Carroll), tOSU (JT) are "powerhouses" i've witnessed and can recall in my short time on this earth. To this generation of school-goers at tOSU, ND was never a powerhouse in my mind.

Exactly! Notre Dame has not been a powerhouse (the brief run at the beginning of the Holtz era wasn't long enough to count) since the early 70s, yet they are still hyped and treated as one. Combine that with the blatant special treatment (playing in a conference for everything but football, the NBC contract, the special BCS bowl stipulations) and it's easy to understand why the hatred for Notre Dame. It has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with disgust.