Game Thread CFP Semifinal: Ohio State vs. Clemson, Sat 12/31 @ 7p ET, ESPN

[Poe McKnoe]

I personally love telegraphing the jet sweep to Samuel. The offense hasn't done shit the whole game, and every time you bring Samuel across the formation you give him the ball. The defense keys on the motion and all 11 guys know where the ball is going. You haven't created the misdirection, you didn't get a numbers advantage. They clearly have no idea how to use the plays in the playbook. It's like finding an old rake laying around the house and then trying to cut down a tree with it.

 

[ant80]

In the 3 losses in late 2013 to early 2014, we were competitive, and we were alive in the game with less than 5 minutes to go in the fourth quarter... Just saying.

 

[redguard117]

Just a random thought - one of the big reasons Nick Saban brought in Lane Kiffin was supposedly to 'update' the Alabama offense, since he feared that other teams were finally catching on, and he didn't want to rely on outtalenting the opposition alone.

Has Urban started running into the same issue? Teams and strategies adapt and evolve constantly. CFB has come a long way since Leak, Tebow and the '06 BCS title game - everyone runs the spread and is keyed in on how to defend it now.

Perhaps it is time for Urban to look for new coordinators, with their own new and innovative ideas, to push the paradigm forward. I remember reading that the reason we did not pursue the Boise St OC and went with Beck is because Urban wanted someone to run 'his' offense, and not someone who would run their own offense. Maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

So only regular season games are to be the judgement of a coaches success and failures?

We scored 35 points against Clemson under Herman. We scored fucking zero against them under Beck. Two different Clemson teams, but really not all that different. Even counting the post-season under Herman, his "worst" performance was 24 points against a world-class "No-Fly Zone" MSU defense (#1 in pass defense, #2 in total defense, and #3 in scoring defense)...again, not counting the first two games of 2014 against Navy and VT since those were JT's first starts since his senior year of high school two years prior. We scored 45.5 ppg (#3) in 2013 and 44.8 ppg (#5) in 2014. You take out the first two games of 2014 because of JT being green, and we averaged 47.5 ppg (#2). Under Beck, we averaged 35.7 ppg (#28) in 2015 and 39.4 (#14) this season (counting the Clemson debacle). Over the last three games of this season, against good-to-great defenses, we averaged exactly 11 fucking points per game. We never, ever were anywhere near that level of putridity under Herman.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

Just a random thought - one of the big reasons Nick Saban brought in Lane Kiffin was supposedly to 'update' the Alabama offense, since he feared that other teams were finally catching on, and he didn't want to rely on outtalenting the opposition alone.

Has Urban started running into the same issue? Teams and strategies adapt and evolve constantly. CFB has come a long way since Leak, Tebow and the '06 BCS title game - everyone runs the spread and is keyed in on how to defend it now.

Perhaps it is time for Urban to look for new coordinators, with their own new and innovative ideas, to push the paradigm forward. I remember reading that the reason we did not pursue the Boise St OC and went with Beck is because Urban wanted someone to run 'his' offense, and not someone who would run their own offense. Maybe that's part of the problem.

My thoughts: No.

In part, he's already doing that. Meyer's offense under Herman was not what he ran at Florida. Herman added different concepts that Meyer didn't have. The power spread to the run the football didn't change, but Herman was able to change what the plays look like at setup to run similar plays with different looks. It worked.

He's let Warinner and Beck do the same. Theirs had fucked this offense to this degree.

Edit: To add, this duo couldn't develop a functional college offense with Cardale Jones/JT Barrett, Ezekiel Elliott, Michael Thomas, and Braxton Miller. How they used Miller was criminal.

 

[redguard117]

My thoughts: No.

In part, he's already doing that. Meyer's offense under Herman was not what he ran at Florida. Herman added different concepts that Meyer didn't have. The power spread to the run the football didn't change, but Herman was able to change what the plays look like at setup to run similar plays with different looks. It worked.

He's let Warinner and Beck do the same. Theirs had fucked this offense to this degree.

Seems pretty clear from this article that Meyer chose Beck and turned down Sanford because he wanted someone who would run Meyer's offense, not his own.
http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2015/12/what_if_ohio_state_had_landed.html

Meyer has admitted before that hiring a coordinator can be more difficult when you aren't dangling the chance to implement the coordinator's vision. And clearly, there were other things at play in Sanford's decision.

Just because the 2 people we put in charge of the offense are incompetent, does not mean we shouldn't seek a bright, innovative young mind who can update Meyer's offense in ways that Meyer might not see. Think back to 2013 and 2014 - our offense was extremely hot and cold. Go back and look at those game threads - how many times were we shut out in the first half? And how many times did we count on Braxton to save us from our own ineptitude.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

In the 3 losses in late 2013 to early 2014, we were competitive, and we were alive in the game with less than 5 minutes to go in the fourth quarter... Just saying.

Most frustrating thing about this loss. I can handle a 27-14 loss in which OSU is competitive but makes mistakes. Can't handle a blowout to end the year, even if the team is a year early.

Although I guess it at least sure change.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

Seems pretty clear from this article that Meyer chose Beck and turned down Sanford because he wanted someone who would run Meyer's offense, not his own.
http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2015/12/what_if_ohio_state_had_landed.html



Just because the 2 people we put in charge of the offense are incompetent, does not mean we shouldn't seek a bright, innovative young mind who can update Meyer's offense in ways that Meyer might not see. Think back to 2013 and 2014 - our offense was extremely hot and cold. Go back and look at those game threads - how many times were we shut out in the first half? And how many times did we count on Braxton to save us from our own ineptitude.

Is this a joke? Take a guess at how many times OSU was shut out in the first half in 2012, 2013, or 2014.

Zero.

In 2011, Braxton Miller saved us from our own ineptitude. From 2012 to 2013, he was running an offense.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

We scored 35 points against Clemson under Herman. We scored fucking zero against them under Beck. Two different Clemson teams, but really not all that different. Even counting the post-season under Herman, his "worst" performance was 24 points against a world-class "No-Fly Zone" MSU defense (#1 in pass defense, #2 in total defense, and #3 in scoring defense)...again, not counting the first two games of 2014 against Navy and VT since those were JT's first starts since his senior year of high school two years prior. We scored 45.5 ppg (#3) in 2013 and 44.8 ppg (#5) in 2014. You take out the first two games of 2014 because of JT being green, and we averaged 47.5 ppg (#2). Under Beck, we averaged 35.7 ppg (#28) in 2015 and 39.4 (#14) this season (counting the Clemson debacle). Over the last three games of this season, against good-to-great defenses, we averaged exactly 11 fucking points per game. We never, ever were anywhere near that level of putridity under Herman.

I'm really not sure why you are wasting your time comparing Beck to Herman . They aren't even in the same ballpark.

 

[redguard117]

Is this a joke? Take a guess at how many times OSU was shut out in the first half in 2012, 2013, or 2014.

Zero.

In 2011, Braxton Miller saved us from our own ineptitude. From 2012 to 2013, he was running an offense.

No joke. I was there too, and I remember being very underwhelmed at the time with our new offense.

Maybe we are remembering things differently, but to me at least it felt that way.

Edit:

Recap of 2012 OSU-UAB

Braxton Miller ran for two touchdowns and No. 16 Ohio State overcame a lethargic, mistake-filled and enigmatic effort to hold off UAB 29-15 on Saturday.
...
It was yet another curious performance by the Buckeyes. They have struggled in all four of their non-conference home games, having to come from behind last week before beating California 35-28 on a late defensive gaffe.

Miller completed 12 of 20 passes for 143 yards and rushed for 64 yards on 11 carries. Jordan Hall gained 105 yards on 17 carries.

Ohio State was a 37-point favorite against UAB, which had lost at home to in-state rival Troy 39-29 in its opener and then been pounded 49-6 by No. 8 South Carolina a week ago.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=322660194

Just to pick one game, there are obviously others (e.g. Guiton vs. Purdue)

 

[Woody1968]

I'm really not sure why you are wasting your time comparing Beck to Herman . They aren't even in the same ballpark.

They aren't even in the same motherfucking sport!

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I'm really not sure why you are wasting your time comparing Beck to Herman . They aren't even in the same ballpark.

And that's the whole point. If they aren't in the same ball park, and you don't think Herman was all that great, then just how bad do you think Beck is?

 

[jwinslow]

I am not necessarily saying I think we have three first rounders, but we did see an "expert" release his mock draft with those guys in the first round. I have also seen Mock Drafts with Corey Smith as a mid rounder.

then you should have laughed, never read his stuff again and certainly not quoted it. Corey Smith does not have a prayer of being drafted. He has been an infrequent receiver at OSU. He barely produced when he was targeted a dozen or more times vs Virginia tech in 2014.

My point is that our receivers are being made to look mediocre because of play calling and scheme and not because of their talent.

I do not disagree with that, but Clark is not very good. McLaurin is OK (and would be a steady #3/4 if Troy Smith '06 was the qb). brown is not the same post injury and Parris has yet to become a true wr. Brown is the only veteran that I see as an NFL guy but only in a different scheme

Now Victor and Hill? That's another story, let alone Grimes, Lindsey and whatever Mack becomes. There is a wealth of talent to build upon.

I argued with guys on here the year our D sucks ass against Clemson and I defended Shazier and Roby and there were guys saying our defensive coaching was fine and we lacked talent in the back end. Bull[Mark May]. Those two have been all Pros. Roby looked like a clown because of the scheme he was playing in, not because he lacked skill. Same for Shazier.

probably because you expressed it in that ridiculous fashion. Hint: most folks were deeply troubled by the unusually awful defense that year. I'm also trying to figure out when Shazier was an alleged whipping boy in 2013 similar to Roby (who had serious effort issues in that hideous system )

Claiming that doesn't change anything about this conversation.

You know we have had this conversation before, I believe we have several WRs that will play on Sundays. Because they have the talent. Coaching is making them look like they have less talent than they do.

agreed with all of that, and I think this bad of a failure will force the necessary changes, especially with Kevin's availability

 

[Bill Lucas]

We scored 35 points against Clemson under Herman. We scored fucking zero against them under Beck. Two different Clemson teams, but really not all that different. Even counting the post-season under Herman, his "worst" performance was 24 points against a world-class "No-Fly Zone" MSU defense (#1 in pass defense, #2 in total defense, and #3 in scoring defense)...again, not counting the first two games of 2014 against Navy and VT since those were JT's first starts since his senior year of high school two years prior. We scored 45.5 ppg (#3) in 2013 and 44.8 ppg (#5) in 2014. You take out the first two games of 2014 because of JT being green, and we averaged 47.5 ppg (#2). Under Beck, we averaged 35.7 ppg (#28) in 2015 and 39.4 (#14) this season (counting the Clemson debacle). Over the last three games of this season, against good-to-great defenses, we averaged exactly 11 fucking points per game. We never, ever were anywhere near that level of putridity under Herman.

To expound on this. That Clemson defense in 2013 (2014?) was just as aggressive and gave our offensive line fits in pass protection. Ohio State was still able to score 35 points and stay in the game despite a terrible start. Last night there were no answers to the bad start on offense.

 

[cincibuck]

One of the problems of picking 4 and 5 stars is that they aren't going to hang around for four years. Michigan State, Wisconsin, Penn State and Michigan gave this young team a rough time. The Bucks won three games they could just as easily lost but for the outstanding defense. All those teams were heavy in fourth year experience as was Clemson.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. In the meantime, get a better sword fighter to call the plays.