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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
glenn;1625661; said:
more worrisome is the comment about membership in the aau. 'that rules anyone other than Notre Dame out.' i don't know about this, but it sounds potentially ominous.
Association of American Universities
UT-Austin has been a member since 1929. And don't worry about the CIC. Texas would immediately be in the middle of the pack, if not one of the stronger institutions in the Big 10 in terms of research. They are a complete fit academically, as far as I'm concerned.
in my opinion, the big ten has no need whatever for a used-to-be unless it can quickly become an is-again. not a good time to take a flyer.
Completely agree. The Big 10 currently struggles with the perception that they are less relevant than they used to be. Notre Dame would only exacerbate that problem.
 
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No worries on academics, glenn. You guys are the ideal school we're looking for academically in an expansion team.

I, for one, don't think that market share and TV ratings matter quite as much as what has been discussed (i.e. more than the on-the-field product). It is important though, and I think it's safe to say that UT has a whole lot more to offer than any one (or two, for that matter) Big East east-coast schools. Not only would you be adding a school that is "the school" in a state famously known for its football (much like Ohio State is to Ohio or USC is to California), but you'd be bringing in new interest from a region devoid of a Big Ten team. And that Texas fanbase is HUGE, very well established, and rabid. Fans from other schools in your area will be for sure keeping tabs on you guys, not to unlike how fans from within the Big Ten keep an eye on Notre Dame and some of the Big East teams (more often than not because the Big East likes to play games on days other than Saturday).

Besides, the New York market doesn't give two craps about college football. Their interest is fleeting. It wasn't until Rutgers actually started playing some competitive football did NY even become remote interested in college football. That's a pro sports region.

Love hearing your insight glenn! We've been waiting for one of our Longhorn posters to give us their $0.02 on what the folks down there in Texas are thinking. Had no idea Texas was so willing to put the Big XII behind them and jump to a new conference. After attending the OSU/Texas game in Columbus and last year's Fiesta Bowl, I must say there isn't a school or fan base any more similar to our own as the Texas Longhorns. Cut from a lot of the same cloth- from high school football to academic excellence to school size to tradition to on-the-field product. You guys are top-notch all the way around.
 
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here is the academic comparator i spoke of earlier. i've had this together for a day or so but have been waiting for a quiet moment when i can collect what's left of my thinking in order to add some observations.

these ratings come from the us news & world people. i know there are other lists that may be at least as viable, but i don't know where they are on line. at any rate, these numbers reflect perception to a decent degree and have some validity if only for that reason. certainly we expect northwestern to be highly rated, and it is here, and some schools that we think are pretty light show up that way in these numbers.

in addition to the big ten and the pac-10, i'm showing the ratings for the big 12 and sec for comparison. some interesting things show up.

also, you probably know that notre dame got a rank of 20 from these people.

for stat purposes, i had no idea how to account for 'tier 3' schools, so i arbitrarily assigned 150 to any tier 3 school to derive conference avg and std dev scores. i figured putting them 20 points behind lsu would be sufficient penance.

one interesting thing, as you guys have mentioned, the big ten has an excellent average rating and a low standard deviation. really, a comparatively tight group. compare that with the pac-10 which has a very good average but a large standard deviation. the scores here suggest that the pac-10 has a schism. there is a huge drop from the top 5 to the other 5.

the lowest rated big ten school would be a very solid member of any of the other conferences here. the highest rated big 12 school *ahem* *ahem* with a decent lead over the next in line and a large lead over the conference average would be a comfortable middling school in the big ten. wouldn't burnish your resume, really, but certainly wouldn't be a perceptual liability (and i don't see that your academic standing needs any burnishing). strong enough academically and from a research standpoint to add some value, particularly when you take into account regional specialization such as latin-american studies and maybe something like oceanography. i know a lot of you guys border an inland sea, but we bring a long border with the gulf of mexico. and anything you might want to know about deserts or piney woods or high plains if you don't have them, we can probably speak from experience. throw in melted automotive interior plastics or sidewalk culinary arts, for that matter. : )

i have a hard time believing that missouri is the equal academically of oklahoma, but, regardless, if these numbers have any validity, mizzou is not that comfortable a fit academically in the big ten.

note that the big 12 and sec have very similar numbers, really, even with texas still on board. texas in the sec would co-lead there if vandy went away. doesn't vanderbilt stand out in that group? like a smart, ugly girl the gang keeps around just for the fun of it. vandy really brings that avg up but also perks up the std dev.

i think these numbers bear out my claim that the big ten is a better fit from the texas perspective academically -- as well as from a proximity standpoint -- than the pac-10. texas in the pac-10 would be on a middle island with washington with nobody else that similar -- here again, if the numbers mean all that much. also, texas bringing a coastal experience or latin-american perspective to the pac-10 would probably induce a yawn of epic scale.

anyway, here are the numbers. sorry for the spacing. if anybody can repost these numbers in an easier to read format, please do.


Big Ten
avg...........50.2
std dev.......19.5
Northwestern....12
Michigan........27
Wisconsin.......39
Illinois........39
Penn State......47
Ohio State......53
Minnesota.......61
Purdue..........61
Michigan St.....71
Iowa............71
Indiana.........71


Pac-10
avg...........71.1
std dev.......52.6
Stanford.........4
California......21
UCLA............24
USC.............26
Washington......42
Arizona........102
Washington St..106
Oregon.........115
Arizona State..121
Oregon State...Tier 3


Big 12
avg...........99.9
std dev.......34.3
Texas...........47
Texas A&M.......61
Colorado........77
Baylor..........80
Iowa State......88
Nebraska........96
Kansas..........96
Oklahoma.......102
Missouri.......102
Oklahoma St....Tier 3
Texas Tech.....Tier 3
Kansas State...Tier 3


SEC
avg..........100.5
std dev.......41.7
Vanderbilt......17
Florida.........47
Georgia.........58
Auburn..........88
Alabama.........96
Tennessee......106
South Carolina.110
Kentucky.......128
Arkansas.......128
LSU............128
Mississippi....Tier 3
Mississippi St.Tier 3

edit: here are the us n&w ratings for other programs being mentioned:

Notre Dame......20
Pittsburgh......56
Syracuse........58
Rutgers.........66
West Virginia...Tier 3
 
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thanks for the kind comments, guys, and for the reassurances that there aren't any procedural concerns.

also, realize this is one man's finger on the pulse. don't be surprised when others don't agree, but my opinions may reflect those of an awful lot of longhorns. the disgust, in general, for the big 12 is not hard to find.

i was opposed to our joining the big 8 bozos in the first place, but it was easy to see why we did. i think it is patently obvious that not only do we not belong there but that we cannot stay there. we have found the magnum condoms in the wife's sock drawer.
 
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If it's Texas that we expand with, then I'm all for it. If it's anyone else... no.

To add Texas to the Big Ten would be a huge shot to the arm.

I wouldn't even want Notre Dame, seriously. Bunch of douche bags. And Texas fans have always been cool when we've played them.
 
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ORD_Buckeye;1625337; said:
I think the Big Ten and the Pac 10 have a very long history of cooperating on matters that affect both conferences and the Rose Bowl tie-in. Do you think it was a mere coincidence that both conferences publicly announced plans to expand within days of each other?

Due to geography, the Pac 10 doesn't have nearly the options we do. Boise is basically Wright State with a good football team. Nevada/UNLV...meh. BYU would never be allowed in by the better academic schools. Utah and Colorado State are, at best, "we got nobody else to turn to" options. The thought has always been that if the Pac 10 seriously went after two more schools, Colorado and Texas are high on their radar.

If so, I can see them coming to us and saying, "Please, please, please let us have the first crack at wooing Texas. You guys have better options." In such a situation, I'd say there's an even chance that we would back off and let them have the first shot.

Thanks for your answer! Now I understand our amicability toward the Pac 10. However, if it came down to a market, academic and sports powerhouse such as Texas.... I (pretending to be the Big 10 powers that be) would want them and would not back off.
 
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i think you are right, leon. i do think texas in the big ten makes a lot of sense all the way around, and that having us in your conference would be a good thing for you guys as well.

if the big ten is really interested in ut, this would be an especially good time to make an approach. maybe they have already.

i don't mean to besmirch notre dame, but those guys have been running on fumes for a long time now.

gotta get ready to go see the kids. back soon but not sooner.

osu d, YES.
 
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DaveyBoy;1625540; said:
HV is in the sticks no doubt. But AA is 15 minutes from Detroit Airport. Lansing has 757s fly in and out of there.

but is everyone sure that the non-revenue sports use planes ? At least in my day....1980s....everyone but the BB and FB team used buses or vans.

AA is definitley not 15 minutes from Detroit metro. 25 miles, in a bus even with no traffic, is at least 30 minutes. I live in this god forsaken state and the traffic is AWFUL! but it's not crappy valley... As far as being the sticks that is.

I'd love to see Texas but like I've seen posted already, don't expand just to expand. Texas, ND and Mizzou all three. Anything less than that forget it.

Go BIG or don't go at all.
 
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TS10HTW;1625700; said:
AA is definitley not 15 minutes from Detroit metro. 25 miles, in a bus even with no traffic, is at least 30 minutes. I live in this god forsaken state and the traffic is AWFUL! but it's not crappy valley... As far as being the sticks that is.

I'd love to see Texas but like I've seen posted already, don't expand just to expand. Texas, ND and Mizzou all three. Anything less than that forget it.

Go BIG or don't go at all.


I live near AA...make the trip every week. 15 to 20 minutes is probably about average....but 30 minutes from the center of UM's campus. I do tend to drive a bit fast....especially if I'm about to leave the state of Michigan:)
 
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BRICKtamland;1625195; said:
Cinfali;1625151; said:
How about Hawaii to Boise, Idaho? :)

Another example that doesn't correlate to this situation. What closer conference option does Hawaii have? None.

Sounds to me like someone needs to brush up on their knowledge of the WAC conference and geography. Honolulu to Boise is 2,462 nautical miles. Closer WAC venues are:

Fresno State: 2,187 nautical miles
San Diego State: 2,270 nautical miles
Nevada: 2,232 nautical miles
 
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I would love Texas, however with their recent success and their rival games with Oklahoma and A&M I can't see the Longhorns coming to the Big Ten. I also like Notre Dame, however they won't be coming for the same reason they did not the first time we flirted with them and that's money. I can see maybe 4 or 5 teams that are realistic.

Pitt: Solid university with natural rivals in Penn State and Ohio State. I think their football tradtion and recent success could be a natural fit for the Big Ten. I also think their basketball program gives them a decent fit and you have to remember this aspect.

WVU: A very fiesty fan base and like Pitt natural rivals with Penn State and OSU. The basketball program also is a good fit. The problem is WVU and the respect view nationally.

Syracuse: Opens a new market and though suffering have the pieces to be a solid add.

Rutgers: Just not big enough and though open a market I just don't see the Knights as a serious prospect.

Mizzo: I keep hearing from experts that this will be the team and I ask why??? I think they are solid and open a market, but they don't do it for me. You might as well go for Nebraska or Oklahoma. I just can't see Texas or Oklahoma entertaining a switch to the Big Ten.

Final view at this time for me subject to change of course is Pitt. I just see them as being the best fit and most likely. I would or could also except Syracuse.

I would support either Pitt or Syracuse and even WVU, but Pitt is the team I think fits the best.
 
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sacosud;1625847; said:
I would love Texas, however with their recent success and their rival games with Oklahoma and A&M I can't see the Longhorns coming to the Big Ten. I also like Notre Dame, however they won't be coming for the same reason they did not the first time we flirted with them and that's money. I can see maybe 4 or 5 teams that are realistic.

Pitt: Solid university with natural rivals in Penn State and Ohio State. I think their football tradtion and recent success could be a natural fit for the Big Ten. I also think their basketball program gives them a decent fit and you have to remember this aspect.

WVU: A very fiesty fan base and like Pitt natural rivals with Penn State and OSU. The basketball program also is a good fit. The problem is WVU and the respect view nationally.

Syracuse: Opens a new market and though suffering have the pieces to be a solid add.

Rutgers: Just not big enough and though open a market I just don't see the Knights as a serious prospect.

Mizzo: I keep hearing from experts that this will be the team and I ask why??? I think they are solid and open a market, but they don't do it for me. You might as well go for Nebraska or Oklahoma. I just can't see Texas or Oklahoma entertaining a switch to the Big Ten.

Final view at this time for me subject to change of course is Pitt. I just see them as being the best fit and most likely. I would or could also except Syracuse.

I would support either Pitt or Syracuse and even WVU, but Pitt is the team I think fits the best.

all good points, except:

WVU adds no value as far as fan base or markets.

Syracuse - nice school and tradition and great BB. But really an East Coast school that is hell to travel to in the Winter....think >100 inches of snow /year

Oklahoma - no way, no how. History of scandals.

Nebraska - small market but great tradition and some national appeal. Would be ideally balanced with Missouri (which adds KC and StL markets plus some good balanced BB and FB).

Pitt - strengthens the Western PA market and adds good FB and great BB. If PSU pushes to add Pitt, then it will be done. Personally, I'm not thrilled about the idea of having Pitt in from a purely selfish standpoint.....Pitt would challenge us for recruits in FB more than ever.

If we add 3 and assuming ND doesn't get an invite - those would be:

Missouri + Nebraska + Pitt

If we add 1 - that would be Missouri or Pittsburgh depending upon PSU's desire.
 
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