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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
Woody1968;1625466; said:
I don't have any insider information, I'm just using common sense. The point of this proposed expansion is to get a championship game and strengthen the conference in football.
Right, then wrong. A subsidiary objective is to strengthen the CIC, and that comes way before "strengthening football." But even if you're right about the second objective - are you seriously suggesting Notre Dame is stronger than Tejas? :slappy:

Woody1968;1625466; said:
The Big 12 is not going to let its cash cow walk out the door.
Just how do you think the Big 12 would stop it? I know there are a lot of firearms down there, but in this case I'm not sure they'd be very effective.
 
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HV is in the sticks no doubt. But AA is 15 minutes from Detroit Airport. Lansing has 757s fly in and out of there.

but is everyone sure that the non-revenue sports use planes ? At least in my day....1980s....everyone but the BB and FB team used buses or vans.

BrutusBobcat;1625526; said:
That's an interesting point. Ohio State is no more than 15 minutes from Port Columbus; the worst flight is going to be to Penn State, which is in the middle of nowhere. I think you fly into Harrisburg then bus it into Happy Valley. Here's the others:

The good:

Minnesota - Like OSU, within about 15 minutes of a major airport (MSP)
Wisconsin - Madtown has a mid-market commercial airport
Northwestern - Maybe 20 minutes from O'Hare
Illinois - Like Madtown, a mid-market commercial airport
Iowa - Again, a mid-market commercial airport

The not-so-good:

Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State all lack even a mid-market airport, so they'll involve either a bus ride or charter flight.

I'm not sure what the B12 is like, though since the Big Ten is relatively centered around Chicago, any charter flight for Texas could go out of O'Hare to the smaller university towns.
 
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I agree on the AAU part. But Oklahoma's athletic department is top notch.

But I want nothing to do with OU and their SEC-like cheating....even if Stoops is cleaning it up.

ORD_Buckeye;1625471; said:
Oklahoma is a "good" university only in the context of much of what passes for higher education in that part of the country. Were they to join the CIC, they'd be the worst affiliated school by a country mile. I'd wager that the gap between the current lowest (but still excellent) schools--Indiana and MSU--and the top (Chicago) would be smaller than it would be down to Oklahoma.

Also, they're not an AAU member, and that rules anyone other than Notre Dame out before any discussion even begins. Trust me. This I do know. I even have a wager on it.
 
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TheRob8801;1625454; said:
As much as I'd love the addition of Texas as a program in both Football and Basketball, I don't see it as reasonable for the fans or players.

Two words: Southwest Airlines.

ScarletBlood31;1625543; said:
How is Cincinnati not on this list? I think they would be a good addition to the Big 10, especially considering their location and growing strength of the program.

Not a ______________________________________ chance.
 
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BrutusBobcat;1625526; said:
That's an interesting point. Ohio State is no more than 15 minutes from Port Columbus; the worst flight is going to be to Penn State, which is in the middle of nowhere. I think you fly into Harrisburg then bus it into Happy Valley. Here's the others:

The good:

Minnesota - Like OSU, within about 15 minutes of a major airport (MSP)
Wisconsin - Madtown has a mid-market commercial airport
Northwestern - Maybe 20 minutes from O'Hare
Illinois - Like Madtown, a mid-market commercial airport
Iowa - Again, a mid-market commercial airport

The not-so-good:

Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State all lack even a mid-market airport, so they'll involve either a bus ride or charter flight.

I'm not sure what the B12 is like, though since the Big Ten is relatively centered around Chicago, any charter flight for Texas could go out of O'Hare to the smaller university towns.

They could fly into Williamsport in a pinch to get to [strike]hell[/strike] Happy Valley....

Lansing has a suitable runway for 757s as was said before I responded here. They wouldn't be an issue. Indiana might actually be the worst honestly - flying into Indy and then busing into the middle of nowhere in Indiana.

Purdue has its own university airport and Detroit International (or whatever they're calling it this week) is about 25 minutes from Ann Arbor (is a whore)....
 
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ScarletBlood31;1625543; said:
How is Cincinnati not on this list? I think they would be a good addition to the Big 10, especially considering their location and growing strength of the program.

:lol: You might as well said Miami of Ohio. At least their academics are somewhat respectable and they have more tradition in sports. Top 25 in all-time wins for college football, so on and so forth.
 
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Cinfali;1625558; said:
:lol: You might as well said Miami of Ohio. At least their academics are somewhat respectable and they have more tradition in sports. Top 25 in all-time wins for college football, so on and so forth.

I'm not sure which school joining would make ORD's head explode faster.
 
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MaxBuck;1625530; said:
Right, then wrong. A subsidiary objective is to strengthen the CIC, and that comes way before "strengthening football." But even if you're right about the second objective - are you seriously suggesting Notre Dame is stronger than Tejas? :slappy:

Just how do you think the Big 12 would stop it? I know there are a lot of firearms down there, but in this case I'm not sure they'd be very effective.

Go back and read the press release. This decision is all about football.

Is Notre Dame stronger than Texas? That's a subjective opinion. Despite the fact that Notre Dame has fallen on hard times lately, they still have a brand that sells. Their Football program has a winning tradition over the past 100 years. It isn't about reality as much as it is about perception. People perceive Notre Dame to be a strong program historically. 10 years ago, Texas was pretty average too.

I'm sure The Big 12 would make sure that they would offer Texas some kind of incentive to stay. Like I said, they aren't just going to let them walk out the door.
 
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Woody1968;1625566; said:
Go back and read the press release. This decision is all about football.

Is Notre Dame stronger than Texas? That's a subjective opinion. Despite the fact that Notre Dame has fallen on hard times lately, they still have a brand that sells. Their Football program has a winning tradition over the past 100 years. It isn't about reality as much as it is about perception. People perceive Notre Dame to be a strong program historically. 10 years ago, Texas was pretty average too.

How do you put Notre Dame ahead of Texas though after all the BS the Big Ten has had to put up with on the Domer's behalf? Texas's product is better than ND's on (football, basketball) and off (academics, grad program) the field, and Texas shows NO signs of slowing down. NDs' past is great and all, but they're still clinging to that past, and staying an independent isn't going to help them. And they've been a mediocre to bad team for... what... how many years now? The echos are in a coma.

I certainly hope the Big Ten does the right thing and puts the hard sell on UT admins. We need them and they need us.
 
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Let me clue the posters in support of adding the supposedly strong Domer program in to what will happen with the perceived reputation as soon as they're a part of the Big Ten. You know that amazing reputation that has everyone saying they'll be a top 10 team before every single season? You can kiss it goodbye. As soon as they join the Big Ten, their mediocrity and flat out sucking over the last 10-15 years will be the main story. It will no longer be "Oh look at Notre Dame, they have the chance to go to the NC game this year!" (what was that Holtz? Didn't you say that last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the...I think you get the point). Instead it will suddenly be "But Notre Dame isn't a strong opponent like they used to be. They're really just another weak Big Ten team, and they've been that way for the past several years."

Think I'm wrong? You know as well as I do how fickle the media circus is, and just how quickly they'll turn on the media darling if they're given a reason. And joining the "weak" Big Ten gives them all the reason in the world to (god forbid) actually talk about how crappy they've been lately. If the Domers join in time for the 2010 season, that's what will happen. If expansion happens in 2011 or 2012 and Kelly manages to have a 10-win season there, then the media turning on their darling won't happen for another season. But rest assured, if ND comes into the conference off a winning season, the moment they have any worse than a 10-win season, it is back to "another weak Big Ten team." Kiss all the glorified reputation they were supposed to bring goodbye.
 
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i'm getting an education here. the situation appears to be more complicated than i had realized.

for one, i had no knowledge of the cic. i don't know if that is any sort of impediment to a school like texas. i'm guessing not.

more worrisome is the comment about membership in the aau. 'that rules anyone other than Notre Dame out.' i don't know about this, but it sounds potentially ominous.

i have no idea what the big ten is thinking, nor any member school of the big ten, nor do i have a clue regarding what texas officials are thinking. i suppose it is possible that we are not a candidate and know it and are not even entertaining the possibility of heading your way. i think there is too much smoke, though, for me to believe that there isn't a btc brand in the fire prepping maybe to scorch a little burnt orange cowhide.*

regarding big ten conference goals, i gather there are numerous itches the conference is hoping this new member will scratch. adding anyone would qualify the conference to partition into divisions and join the lucrative and nationally attractive conference championship weekend, but, of course, there are other desires as you guys point out. academic and moral reputation strikes me as paramount. reasonable proximity would be a real plus. actual athletic excellence in more than just football right now would a huge plus. perceived athletic excellence based on past glories would be good, as well -- in other words, no johnny-come-lately who might just as easily fade back into historic obscurity.

maybe, though, the most important characteristic other than sterling academic and moral reputation of a new member -- here, again, as you guys point out -- is what it could bring in terms of expanded market and enhanced bargaining position. the word down here is that texas is worried about that as well. not so much now, but in a few years, the money to run a first-class program may be really, really scarce. texas is hidebound to put itself in as sound a situation as is possible, and i have no doubt that all you guys have the same realizations and the same goals.

obviously those are so many varied goals that probably not all can be met. who knows how they are prioritized. notre dame does satisfy a lot of them, but i personally think your need for right-now athletic competence is pretty important, and nd leaves some to be desired for the moment anyway. who knows if the various ways previous nd coaches have said the school hamstrings them are real and will continue, but it is a real possibility. in my opinion, the big ten has no need whatever for a used-to-be unless it can quickly become an is-again. not a good time to take a flyer.

'[FONT=&quot]The Big 12 is not going to let its cash cow walk out the door[/FONT].' i agree that the big 12 may not be in any position to allow or disallow anything. prior to the conclusion of last season i think there was some validity to that assumption, but i think last rites for that kind of thinking isn't even a faint echo anymore. realize that i don't know a thing for sure. but i'm a longtime observer, and i know a lot about how the longhorn program thinks and what the program seems to view as important. if what those coaches did to us last season wasn't a mortal wound to that association, i'll eat my hat, and i'm not fond of hat.

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* this sentence included to offer verification that i really am a texan. if you guys could hear me speak, though, there would be no question. i grew up in a dusty little west texas town and years of living all over the country haven't so much as dented my accent, i gather.
 
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glenn;1625661; said:
for one, i had no knowledge of the cic. i don't know if that is any sort of impediment to a school like texas. i'm guessing not.

more worrisome is the comment about membership in the aau. 'that rules anyone other than Notre Dame out.' i don't know about this, but it sounds potentially ominous.

Texas has zero academic worries regarding an offer. They've been a member of the AAU since 1929 and would immediately fall squarely alongside Illinois in terms of undergrad, research and faculty stature. When one looks at the whole package of what makes a university great, no other serious candidate brings the Big Ten as much as Texas, and that includes that overgrown boarding school in South Bend.
 
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