Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[BUCKYLE]

I thought the set up for the Big Ten Championship game in and around the convention center and Lucas Oil Stadium last year was really well put together and a lot of fun.

That said, you'd think they would want to have the game at an east coast venue sooner rather than later given the focus of conference expansion in the area.

That would be the biggest negative from locking it in Indianapolis for such a long contract.

What's the advantage of playing the game on the east coast? I mean, its not like we need to woo anyone. It's not like we need it to keep anyone.

To me, adding east coast teams is understandable, but I'd prefer we not sell out our heritage for any reason.

 

[Buckeye86]

What's the advantage of playing the game on the east coast?

Media hype and market exposure.

I mean, its not like we need to woo anyone. It's not like we need it to keep anyone.

Are you talking about teams, media markets, television subscribers, recruits? I agree that we don't need any of those things, but it doesn't hurt.

In terms of recruiting, Ohio State has been focusing quite a bit in the Virginia/Maryland/NC region and playing a championship game close by once and awhile especially wouldn't hurt.

To me, adding east coast teams is understandable, but I'd prefer we not sell out our heritage for any reason.

The heritage of Big Ten Championship games that started in 2011?

I understand what you are saying, but the Midwest heritage of the Big Ten is already shattered at this point so we might as well embrace new and interesting things like a Big Ten championship game played in MetLife Stadium (or something similar).

 

[Saw31]

I want Soldier Field and Lambeau Field in December. Never gonna happen. But a little ice and snow is what midwest football is all about in my imo...

 

[Zurp]

Pfft. Why not just put the game in Columbus? That way, only one of the teams needs to travel.

 

[cincibuck]

A strong and persuasive argument which was about as logical as this addition
Perhaps if you explain yourself we can bow to your wisdom regarding this egregious blunder.

I see I peed in your Cheerios this morning. Sorry, that was not my intention, but since you asked:

1. The Big Ten is in competition with teams from across the nation, but particularly from the South and West.
2. That competition includes persuading young athletes to attend Big Ten schools.
3. If there is a perception that football can't be played in Big Ten states in December and January, then it will be a factor in where young athletes chose to play, even athletes who live in Big Ten states.
4. Now that we are venturing into a national playoff for football, it is important that those games give ALL teams and ALL fan bases an equal opportunity to have those games in their region.
5. When the Big Ten bans night games in November (despite the fact that Midwest high school playoff games continue to be played at night) it sends the message that the weather keeps teams from playing night football in Midwest states.
6. More importantly, in the battle for viewers, it turns Saturday night - a most important block of air time- over to teams in conferences based in the South and West (and Notre Dame, which also has no restriction on November game times.)
7. Further, it means that the only Big Ten rivalry game that will ever see national, or even regional air time other than BTN, on one of the most important TV days will be Ohio State - Michigan - diminishing all other programs in the conference and diminishing the conference to which Ohio State's fortunes are inexorably tied.
8. By placing the conference championship game in a barn you are reiterating the contention that football can't be played in the Midwest in December because of weather. That is fodder for recruiters from the South and West. This despite the fact that rain and snow are not uncommon factors in games played in the South and West.
9. By placing the CCG in a barn in Indianapolis, you are relinquishing the conference's imprint and influence in one of its biggest assets - Chicago and the Chicago media market- something the conference has done for far too long.
10. By placing the CCG in a barn in Indianapolis you are eliminating the consideration of three of the biggest stadiums in college football as potential playoff/championships sights in the future. (realize that USC has won only ONE of it's claimed ELEVEN national championship on the road or that Alabama only won one of it's claimed fifteen outside of the South.)
11. By placing the CCG in a barn you are reinforcing the notion that important football games must never be played in the elements, yet this is something that the NFL does every December and January. "Hey, LA high school hotshot QB, if you're going to play in the NFL you're going to have to learn how to play in ALL kinds of weather. Why not come to the Big Ten and experience it every season?" Have we not seen many recent bowl games played in driving rain, or on fields of mud as formidable as the Somme? Was not a World Series delayed for weeks due to an earthquake? Have hurricanes not disrupted schedules throughout the South? Do the teams in the NFL not play important games - including their Super Bowl - in places like Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, New York, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore and DC and CHICAGO in December and January? (Sorry fellow Browns fans, but it's been too long since an "important" game was played in Cleveland)
12. In short, the Big Ten has continually worked against itself. It has conceded the biggest TV market within its borders to Notre Dame and anyone willing to play night games in the critical November viewing block. It has reinforced the notion that football, like baseball, golf and tennis, must be played in warm weather. It has signed itself up to be the perpetual "away" team in all NATIONAL playoff and championship games. It has continued to underwrite the notion that the South and the West are entitled to all the revenue and exposure provided by the past Bowl, BCS and now NCG systems.

That's my rant, my logic if you will, as to why I am SO opposed to playing the Big Ten Championship Game in an arena. It's nothing I haven't stated before on this and other threads and thus I didn't defend my words. It was certainly nothing aimed at you, Jwins.

 

[RugbyBuck]

The SEC game is played in a barn in Atlanta.

 

[cincibuck]

The SEC game is played in a barn in Atlanta.

Or in a barn in NOLA. I get the desire for a "neutral site" in this case, but Chicago is as neutral as Indianapolis or Atlanta.

 

[jwinslow]

I guess I took that update to mean they were postponing the east coast move, which I like. I see nothing wrong with playing there in the future, especially once Virginia and others have joined, but for now it feels forced.

I agree about indoor games, though their job is to create excitement and sell tickets, especially for games where the matchups are not ideal (especially if they can't get a heavy hitter to join the west division). I would prefer home games for CCG matchups.

3. If there is a perception that football can't be played in Big Ten states in December and January, then it will be a factor in where young athletes chose to play, even athletes who live in Big Ten states.

Or they could try winning games and using their outrageous revenue profits to hire high level coaches (head and assistants). PSU & UM suddenly attracted talent to their cold locales when they hired new coaches (and both head coaches were just okay, UM did hire an elite DC to pile up recruits).

4. Now that we are venturing into a national playoff for football, it is important that those games give ALL teams and ALL fan bases an equal opportunity to have those games in their region.

No, it is not (unfortunately). It would be nice but the decision makers don't care about fair. They care about money.

5. When the Big Ten bans night games in November

That rule no longer exists.

6. More importantly, in the battle for viewers, it turns Saturday night - a most important block of air time- over to teams in conferences based in the South and West (and Notre Dame, which also has no restriction on November game times.)

First of all, the notion that the west coast teams are getting great exposure is quite overstated. Those 9-11 pm kickoffs are being watched sparingly.

The south does benefit from their preference for night games. They also benefit from having every possible advantage and air time given to them by their puppet master in Bristol. Scheduling regular night games won't get them on TV over a 2nd tier SEC matchup, especially with the upcoming negotiations. Playing better football will.

7. Further, it means that the only Big Ten rivalry game that will ever see national, or even regional air time other than BTN, on one of the most important TV days will be Ohio State - Michigan - diminishing all other programs in the conference and diminishing the conference to which Ohio State's fortunes are inexorably tied.

That's because the league stinks, not because the conference avoids frigid night games. What other rivalry game garners national interest?

9. By placing the CCG in a barn in Indianapolis, you are relinquishing the conference's imprint and influence in one of its biggest assets - Chicago and the Chicago media market- something the conference has done for far too long.
10. By placing the CCG in a barn in Indianapolis you are eliminating the consideration of three of the biggest stadiums in college football as potential playoff/championships sights in the future. (realize that USC has won only ONE of it's claimed ELEVEN national championship on the road or that Alabama only won one of it's claimed fifteen outside of the South.)

Indy has been proven as a spectacular playoff venue for years now. I didn't see their inclusion in the playoff system and saw plenty of vehement opposition to anything up north.

ESPN/Southern/Western folk won't come to Indy, yet they're going to sign up for a game in the terrifying cold of Chicago because of a few CCG games played there by schools used that weather?

11. By placing the CCG in a barn you are reinforcing the notion that important football games must never be played in the elements, yet this is something that the NFL does every December and January. "Hey, LA high school hotshot QB, if you're going to play in the NFL you're going to have to learn how to play in ALL kinds of weather. Why not come to the Big Ten and experience it every season?" Have we not seen many recent bowl games played in driving rain, or on fields of mud as formidable as the Somme? Was not a World Series delayed for weeks due to an earthquake? Have hurricanes not disrupted schedules throughout the South? Do the teams in the NFL not play important games - including their Super Bowl - in places like Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, New York, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore and DC and CHICAGO in December and January? (Sorry fellow Browns fans, but it's been too long since an "important" game was played in Cleveland)

I agree with this principle. That said the media threw an absolute hissy fit at the possibility of a NYC super bowl in the snow.

12. In short, the Big Ten has continually worked against itself. It has conceded the biggest TV market within its borders to Notre Dame and anyone willing to play night games in the critical November viewing block

Chicago is a big ten town and one CCG held there would not change that.

It has reinforced the notion that football, like baseball, golf and tennis, must be played in warm weather. It has signed itself up to be the perpetual "away" team in all NATIONAL playoff and championship games. It has continued to underwrite the notion that the South and the West are entitled to all the revenue and exposure provided by the past Bowl, BCS and now NCG systems.

I wish this wasn't the case, but I'm not sure I buy that bowls, ACC, B12, SEC or their overlord in Bristol want any part of a northern bowl/playoff system. Delany has pulled off some remarkable coups but that one would be borderline magical if he could achieve it.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Or in a barn in NOLA. I get the desire for a "neutral site" in this case, but Chicago is as neutral as Indianapolis or Atlanta.

My intended point was that I don't think playing our CG indoors is necessarily an indictment of Big10 weather. Everyone knows that it's cold in the midwest and it's usually cold here in Atlanta in late November. Big games are these days, I think, expected to be played indoors. It's arguable whether this is preferable but I don't think playing ours inside is a mark against us. In fact, I think, however historic/purist/etc., that playing at Soldier would be a huge negative for recruiting because of the weather. Kids would look at that and say, "Damn, that sucks. I'm staying/going south." I don't think seeing a CG at Lucas generates the same aversion.

 

[cincibuck]

My intended point was that I don't think playing our CG indoors is necessarily an indictment of Big10 weather. Everyone knows that it's cold in the midwest and it's usually cold here in Atlanta in late November. Big games are these days, I think, expected to be played indoors. It's arguable whether this is preferable but I don't think playing ours inside is a mark against us. In fact, I think, however historic/purist/etc., that playing at Soldier would be a huge negative for recruiting because of the weather. Kids would look at that and say, "Damn, that sucks. I'm staying/going south." I don't think seeing a CG at Lucas generates the same aversion.

I don't know that I agree. As kids, we loved to play in the rain and snow. I know the kids at Moeller would see the snow start to fall and begin to make plans to play somewhere so that doesn't seem to me to be something that is consistently seen as a negative. How big are your cojones if you take off your shirt and paint yourself in the school colors in Baton Rouge in December? I can see college kids looking forward to the challenge.

The truth remains that bad weather has often been a part of exciting games in college and especially in the NFL. A bloodied Y.A.Tittle, kneeling on the grass in Soldier Field. Bart Starr sneaking across the frozen goal line to beat Dallas. Ken Anderson out-dueling that munchkin mouth, OSU nay-sayer Faust from San Diego inside ice-box Riverfront. New England putting on a clinic for Timmy Teebone in Foxboro.

This is football. Like rugby and soccer, it CAN be played in all kinds of weather and just as I wouldn't put money on a horse that can't run in mud, I don't respect a football program that can't leave home once in a while and play outside their comfort zone.

 

[RugbyBuck]

I don't disagree with you and certainly not as a participant (rugby is waaay more fun in mud or snow - the ground doesn't hurt quite as much, for one thing). However, Jerry-World and the new (indoor) stadium being built to replace the GA Dome where the SEC CG is played are examples of how the spectator/sponsor experience is driving these types of big games. Yes, I'd rather be at Ohio Stadium than anywhere but we're not mainstream. As such, my only point is that as it becomes more expected that CG's be played indoors, there's less of a stigma for the Big10 playing ours indoors.

 

[matcar]

As a kid I might have enjoyed cold weather football. As an adult spectator, no thanks. I vastly prefer temps 60 or above. I recognize that's a minority opinion here, but it's not likely a minority opinion overall.

 

[BUCKYLE]

A huge part of CFB's popularity are the stadiums that are both bigger and much older than anything the NFL has. To cut out a large part of the tradition and pageantry is a mistake. I realize I'm in the minority and that my being pissed about it won't change anything, but pissed I am, and pissed I shall be.

It just doesn't make any sense to fix what isn't broken. Why imitate the NFL or the SEC when the BIG TEN has built something that resonates far deeper. It's a shame and a waste.

 

[zincfinger]

I see nothing wrong with playing [the B10 CCG on the east coast] in the future, especially once Virginia and others have joined...

Do you really feel that confident that UVa "and others" (which I'm optimistically reading as UNC) will be joining the BigTen in the near future?

 

[muffler dragon]

...but pissed I am, and pissed I shall be.

Let's not bring your disappointment with the way Stannis has been portrayed into other threads. SMH