• New here? Register here now for access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Plus, stay connected and follow BP on Instagram @buckeyeplanet and Facebook.

AL MVP: Who you got?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
plum diamonds buckeye planet

Who's the AL MVP?

  • David Ortiz

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Alex Rodriguez

    Votes: 20 37.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Total voters
    53
Sort by date Sort by votes
sears3820 said:
Gammons is spot-on.

And the award is Most Valuable Player, not Best All-Around.
Click to expand...

Gammons wouldn't be biased or anything would he? He's a Yankee fan right?

If you want to put the emphasis on VALUABLE and not just the best player, fuck both A-Rod and Ortiz..it's Vlad G all day long. That team is NO WHERE without him.

You Boston fans need to face it, you might like Ortiz better than A-Rod but A-Rod is better.
 
Upvote 0
sears3820 said:
Gammons is spot-on.

And the award is Most Valuable Player, not Best All-Around.
Click to expand...

If I may rub it in a bit to my BoSox breathern:

In making the Ortiz is more valuable to his team than A-Rod is to his, you must then be willing to admit that A-Rod has the better supporting cast. By admitting that, so it appears, you think the Yankees are better since they can more afford to lose the best player in baseball than Boston can afford the loss of Ortiz.

:biggrin:

Update:
Batting Average: Advantage Arod
Runs scored: Advantage Arod
Hits: Advantage Arod
RBI: Advantage Ortiz
HR: Advantage Arod (48-47)
SB Advantage Arod
OBP: Advantage Arod
Slg: Advantage Arod (.610 - .604)
OPS: Advantage Arod
 
Upvote 0
zincfinger said:
A bunch of Boston homers here. This one isn't even close, as Jaxbuck pointed out,
Click to expand...


Well of course I'm going to back my guy. Ortiz is just as deserving as A-Rod. Ain't even close? Get the fuck outta here. And we're the homers?


Big Papi is clutch? Bullshit
Click to expand...

Here's Ortiz's stats from the 7th inning on:

AB- 179
Hits- 52
Runs- 37
HR- 19
RBI- 50
SLG- .659
AVG- .291

That's the very definition of clutch. There's no one better when the game's on the line. And it ain't even close. :wink2:
 
Upvote 0
sears3820 said:
Here's Ortiz's stats from the 7th inning on:

AB- 179
Hits- 52
Runs- 37
HR- 19
RBI- 50
SLG- .659
AVG- .291

That's the very definition of clutch. There's no one better when the game's on the line. And it ain't even close. :wink2:
Click to expand...

That is not the definition of clutch. Actually there is no definition of clutch because statistically it does not exist.

That is what the announcers and fine folks at ESPN tell you is clutch.

The people at Baseball Prospectus, Bill James, Voros McCracken, Billy Beane, Theo Epstein etc will all tell you that NO ONE has been able to prove that clutch exists. These people make a living (and win Boston a WS) by taking old fashioned idea's and concepts that permate baseball, putting them under the knife of mathmatics and pure science and seeing what is actually correct and what is not. "Clutch" is one of the things that simply does not hold up to the math.

BTW his season statistics beyond the 7th inning has to be an ESPN invention. Who else would believe the general public dumb enough to fall for it? How many of those AB's came after 7 in a blow out? How many times was the game even close? You telling me that every one of those AB's came with the game on the line? How do you define "game on the line"? Is it 3 runs like a save, 1 run, 5?

These are the type of questions that the sabermetric types ask and look into. What they have all found is absolutely no proof that any hitter's numbers are significantly different under one set of circumstances or another. I.E. if a guy has a lifetime .350 OBP he will get on base at that clip in the fisrt inning as well as the 9th over the course of his career.
 
Upvote 0
sears3820 said:
That's the very definition of clutch. There's no one better when the game's on the line. And it ain't even close. :wink2:
Click to expand...

You mean like Bucky Dent clutch?

denthr.jpg
 
Upvote 0
sears3820 said:
Here's Ortiz's stats from the 7th inning on:

AB- 179
Hits- 52
Runs- 37
HR- 19
RBI- 50
SLG- .659
AVG- .291

That's the very definition of clutch. There's no one better when the game's on the line. And it ain't even close. :wink2:
Click to expand...

The last time I checked the Dispatch or USA Today, I didn't separate categories for offensive stats after the 7th inning. A run scored in the 1st inning is just as important as one scored in the 9th. The award doesn't go to the most clutch player. If it did, then Will Clark would have a few MVP trophies sitting in his closet.

And how can you keep diminishing the value of defense? Being a Boston fan and watching Buckner's gaffe in '86, how can you tell us that defense does not add to a player's VALUE? A-Rod's defense was probably good for saving 10 runs over the course of the season, and that's being conservative. In contrast, Ortiz is a liability in the field. That's why he only played 10 games there all year. Put him out there for 162 and he'd probably cost Boston at least 10 runs with his frying pay mit and lack of range.
 
Upvote 0
Well then in the case of the DH, hate the rule, not Ortiz.

You can dismiss Ortiz's Some more ESPN-created stats that the idiotic general public like me are dumb enough to believe:

(In Close & Late situations)

78 ABs
.346 AVG
11 HRs
33 RBIs

Clutch.

You wanna point to defense? OK.

A-Rod is well below the average 3rd basemen in the league, and is maybe the least qualified 3rd baseman to recieve the gold glove award. He's WORST in Range Factor for qualified AL starters, SECOND WORST in Zone Rating for qualified AL starters.

That is downright horrid. He is 9 runs worse then the average 3rd baseman.

Numbers:

RF: 2.59 (worst in AL for qualified starters)
ZR: .730 (2nd worst in Al for qualified starters)
FRAA: -9
FRAR: 13
EqR: 265
Rate: 94

That is downright horrid. He is 9 runs worse then the average 3rd baseman.

Compare those numbers with some other starting 3rd basemen in the A.L.

Chavaz:
RF: 2.80
ZR: 814
FRAA: 9
FRAR: 30
EqR: 89
Rate: 106

Beltre:
RF: 2.78
ZR: .798
FRAA: 10
FRAR: 30
EqR: 74
Rate: 107

Inge:
RF: 3.25
ZR: .802
FRAA: 14
FRAR: 35
EqR: 83
Rate: 109


I think A-Rod gets the MVP though for the sole reason that Ortiz doesn't play the field. Both deserving candidates.
 
Upvote 0
sears: I agree with your assertion of who is the MVP. However, I strongly disagree with some of your statements:

"A-Rod is well below the average 3rd basemen in the league, and is maybe the least qualified 3rd baseman to recieve the gold glove award."

C'mon now. This statement is not true. Is A-Rod a great 3B? Of course not. Does he deserve the Gold Glove? In my opinion, no. But he's definately an above average 3B defensively. No question about that.

He doesn't compare defensively with the great 3B in baseball. But he's athletically able to be that good maybe even next year, and he does make a lot of great plays at the hot corner.

If you're using defensive stats to justify his prowess at 3B, well, you know how useless I think range factor, etc. is.

I think Ortiz will win the MVP, but even if he didn't deserve it, he'd get it anyway. With the exception of Ted Williams, nobody EVER gets the nod over a Boston player for the individual awards. Nobody. Whenever a Boston player is close to MVP consideration, its a done deal. Not to mention the fact that the other candidate is a Yankee, for which the national media will never vote for.
 
Upvote 0
sears3820 said:
You can dismiss Ortiz's Some more ESPN-created stats that the idiotic general public like me are dumb enough to believe:

(In Close & Late situations)

78 ABs
.346 AVG
11 HRs
33 RBIs

Clutch.
Click to expand...

I never said the word idiotic and wasn't trying to insult anyone. If you believe in clutch then nothing I can say or show you will change your mind.

But I will say that 78 AB's is a small sample size and if you look at whatever it is ESPIN calls close and late over his career his numbers will closely reflect his normal career numbers.

Trust me, brighter minds than any of us have plugged away at this question using complex algorithims and mountains of data. Clutch does not exist.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top