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- Thread starter sears3820
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OSUsushichic
Fired up! Ready to go!
Papi!!!!!!!! He's so clutch.
Fuck A-Rod, and Jeter too.
Fuck A-Rod, and Jeter too.
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Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
sears: "What if they both get to the playoffs Sloops?"
Its pretty highly unlikely that'll happen at this point.
"Does the MVP have to be on the Division winner?"
I don't necessarily subscribe to this logic, but the sportswriters certainly do. Over the last ten years (or so) the writers have inserted their own rules for determinig the awards: like Pitchers can't win MVP anymore, small-ball players don't qualify, and the MVP must come from a Playoff team.
I don't agree with these new "rules" at all.
To me, Ortiz is the MVP. Period. I've never seen anybody this good in a big spot. Its uncanny.
Its pretty highly unlikely that'll happen at this point.
"Does the MVP have to be on the Division winner?"
I don't necessarily subscribe to this logic, but the sportswriters certainly do. Over the last ten years (or so) the writers have inserted their own rules for determinig the awards: like Pitchers can't win MVP anymore, small-ball players don't qualify, and the MVP must come from a Playoff team.
I don't agree with these new "rules" at all.
To me, Ortiz is the MVP. Period. I've never seen anybody this good in a big spot. Its uncanny.
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Many moons ago on here I proposed that MLB should honor the "Most Valuable Player" in each league as well as a "Player Of The Year." It was kinda cool last night when Joe Morgan popped out the same idea, suggesting that they name the "Player Of The Year" award the "Willie Mays Award." I'm all for that, "Most Valuable" doesn't always translate into "Best Player." I've thought about this ever since "media and fan darling" Albert Belle got snuffed in 1995 after hitting 50/50 in a 144 game season.
I'd even take it a step farther, and allow the voting for "Most Valuable Player" to be voted on after the playoffs and World Series, but "Player Of The Year" votes need to be in after game 162.
As of tonite, my "Player Of The Year" would be A-Rod. My MVP would be Bob Wickman. Now, please quit laughing and see my point. The difference between a decent Tribe team last year and one that could make some serious noise in the post-season is Wickman. He was what they were missing last year, and with him, they are a team that if they get in the playoffs are going to be a dangerous team. It's never pretty with Wick, and he'll piss you off to no end, but the bottom line is that HE is the guy that has made the biggest difference in his teams success this year. If the Tribe gets in, wins the Division Series, LCS, and makes it to the World Series with Wick picking up about 5-6 saves along the way, he'd be a lock.
I'd even take it a step farther, and allow the voting for "Most Valuable Player" to be voted on after the playoffs and World Series, but "Player Of The Year" votes need to be in after game 162.
As of tonite, my "Player Of The Year" would be A-Rod. My MVP would be Bob Wickman. Now, please quit laughing and see my point. The difference between a decent Tribe team last year and one that could make some serious noise in the post-season is Wickman. He was what they were missing last year, and with him, they are a team that if they get in the playoffs are going to be a dangerous team. It's never pretty with Wick, and he'll piss you off to no end, but the bottom line is that HE is the guy that has made the biggest difference in his teams success this year. If the Tribe gets in, wins the Division Series, LCS, and makes it to the World Series with Wick picking up about 5-6 saves along the way, he'd be a lock.
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Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Dubs: "Many moons ago on here I proposed that MLB should honor the "Most Valuable Player" in each league as well as a "Player Of The Year."
I don't think there should be two awards. The way the MVP was voted on before the "unwritten rules" (that I documented above) were instituted, I think the spirit of the award was in the right place.
The problem is, that too many sportswriters let their bias seep into the voting & we have the freeking mess that we have today.
I agree with you 100% on the '95 Belle slight. I don't care how good the rest of the Cleveland offense was that season, a guy with 50 HR & 50 2B on an 100-44 team deserves to win the MVP unamimously.
He got slighted due to the fact that the writers held a bias against him for not speaking to the media his whole career, and it'd be hard to beat out an MVP candidate on the Red Sox anyway because of all the bleeding heart moron Red Sox fans in the media.
And I'll take your argument even one step further: why does the best player on the best team keep getting slighted?? They tend to give the MVP to a great player (i.e. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa) who carries an average team (the Giants or Scrubs) to the Playoffs, and ignore people like Albert Belle, Derek Jeter, etc. who are (or were) the best players on the best teams in the regular season, on the premise that "the Giants would be a last place team without Bonds." Well, by the same rationale, would the Yankees be the best team in baseball without Jeter? No frickin' way ..
So, if you took Bonds and put him on a better team and the better team does the exact same frickin thing (make the Playoffs), he's not the MVP anymore?? Makes no sense to me.
"My MVP would be Bob Wickman."
I can make the same argument for Mariano Rivera, and Rivera has better numbers than the Wick.
JonathanXC: "After tonight, it's gotta be David Ortiz."
The Yanks could sweep the Red Sox, and Ortiz will still win the MVP. See my "Bleeding Heart Moron Red Sox fans in the media" example above.
Buckeye513: "Didn't A-Rod win it when he played for the last place Rangers?"
Yes. But there was no hint of an MVP candidate on any of the contenders that season. He almost won it by default.
I don't think there should be two awards. The way the MVP was voted on before the "unwritten rules" (that I documented above) were instituted, I think the spirit of the award was in the right place.
The problem is, that too many sportswriters let their bias seep into the voting & we have the freeking mess that we have today.
I agree with you 100% on the '95 Belle slight. I don't care how good the rest of the Cleveland offense was that season, a guy with 50 HR & 50 2B on an 100-44 team deserves to win the MVP unamimously.
He got slighted due to the fact that the writers held a bias against him for not speaking to the media his whole career, and it'd be hard to beat out an MVP candidate on the Red Sox anyway because of all the bleeding heart moron Red Sox fans in the media.
And I'll take your argument even one step further: why does the best player on the best team keep getting slighted?? They tend to give the MVP to a great player (i.e. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa) who carries an average team (the Giants or Scrubs) to the Playoffs, and ignore people like Albert Belle, Derek Jeter, etc. who are (or were) the best players on the best teams in the regular season, on the premise that "the Giants would be a last place team without Bonds." Well, by the same rationale, would the Yankees be the best team in baseball without Jeter? No frickin' way ..
So, if you took Bonds and put him on a better team and the better team does the exact same frickin thing (make the Playoffs), he's not the MVP anymore?? Makes no sense to me.
"My MVP would be Bob Wickman."
I can make the same argument for Mariano Rivera, and Rivera has better numbers than the Wick.
JonathanXC: "After tonight, it's gotta be David Ortiz."
The Yanks could sweep the Red Sox, and Ortiz will still win the MVP. See my "Bleeding Heart Moron Red Sox fans in the media" example above.
Buckeye513: "Didn't A-Rod win it when he played for the last place Rangers?"
Yes. But there was no hint of an MVP candidate on any of the contenders that season. He almost won it by default.
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No dog in this hunt whatsoever but by the numbers its A-Rod by a nose. Throw in the fact he plays 3b and plays it well then its a no brainer for me but that usually means those who truely have no brains(sportswriters) will do the opposite.
Arod has the better OBP, SLG and therefore OPS. He has 20 steals and plays defense. Ortiz only job on this earth is to hit and A-Rod does a better job of it so again to me, its a no-brainer.
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=620 border=0><TBODY><TR class=primaryBg><TD class="textLg white" align=left colSpan=29>[B]Player Comparison [/B]</TD><TD align=right colSpan=11>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/images/ad_16x80.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD rowSpan=99>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD class="textSm grey" align=left colSpan=22>[B]American League Hitting Stats, 2005[/B]
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rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=true&statSet1=1&c_id=cin&venueID=&prevPage1=1&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=§ion1=null&compare.y=3&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2005&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX120074bosD&compare.x=&sortByStat=3B&"][B][COLOR=#0000ff]3B[/COLOR][/B][/URL] </TD><TD rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=true&statSet1=1&c_id=cin&venueID=&prevPage1=1&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=§ion1=null&compare.y=3&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2005&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX120074bosD&compare.x=&sortByStat=HR&"][B][COLOR=#0000ff]HR[/COLOR][/B][/URL] </TD><TD 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rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=true&statSet1=1&c_id=cin&venueID=&prevPage1=1&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=§ion1=null&compare.y=3&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2005&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX120074bosD&compare.x=&sortByStat=OBP&"][B][COLOR=#0000ff]OBP[/COLOR][/B][/URL] </TD><TD rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=true&statSet1=1&c_id=cin&venueID=&prevPage1=1&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=§ion1=null&compare.y=3&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2005&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX120074bosD&compare.x=&sortByStat=SLG&"][B][COLOR=#0000ff]SLG[/COLOR][/B][/URL] </TD><TD rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=1&readBoxes=true&statSet1=1&c_id=cin&venueID=&prevPage1=1&baseballScope=AL&teamPosCode=all&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&sitSplit=§ion1=null&compare.y=3&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2005&box1=XXXX121347nya5&box2=XXXX120074bosD&compare.x=&sortByStat=AVG&"][B][COLOR=#0000ff]AVG[/COLOR][/B][/URL] </TD><TD rowSpan=3>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD><INPUT onclick="countChoices1(this,'box1')" type=checkbox CHECKED value=XXXX120074bosD name=box1 s_vp_nfaomd="null" s_vp_nfaokd="null" s_vp_nfaof="null"></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap>1. [URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=cin&playerID=120074"][COLOR=#0000ff]D Ortiz[/COLOR][/URL]</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>BOS</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>DH</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>156</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>593</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>117</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>177</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>39</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>1</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>47</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>146</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>359</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>98</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>122</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>1</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>0</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.394</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.605</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.298</TD></TR><TR><TD>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD><INPUT onclick="countChoices1(this,'box2')" type=checkbox CHECKED value=XXXX121347nya5 name=box2 s_vp_nfaomd="null" s_vp_nfaokd="null" s_vp_nfaof="null"></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap>2. [URL="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=cin&playerID=121347"][COLOR=#0000ff]A Rodriguez[/COLOR][/URL]</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>NYY</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>3B</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>159</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>594</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>121</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>190</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>28</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>1</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>47</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>129</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>361</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>90</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>138</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>20</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>6</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.421</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.608</TD><TD class=textSm align=middle>.320</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=41><INPUT type=hidden value=0 name=checkBoxTotal s_vp_nfaomd="null" s_vp_nfaokd="null" s_vp_nfaof="null">[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD rowSpan=2>[IMG]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/trans.gif[/IMG]</TD><TD class=textSm colSpan=15>To add a player to your comparison,
deselect a checkbox. Then enter the player's name.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Arod has the better OBP, SLG and therefore OPS. He has 20 steals and plays defense. Ortiz only job on this earth is to hit and A-Rod does a better job of it so again to me, its a no-brainer.
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barlow1802
Troy Has Legs
Its obvious that most of you posting have never DH'd or had to pinch hit before. Just to clear something up, DHing it considered harder to do than playing the field and being in the lineup. The reason being while in the field your moving, staying loose, focused, and "in the game"... the argument that Ortiz is half the man of A-rod is complete and total bullshit IMO. If ortiz played 1st he'd be fine... look at past MVP voting, Giambi..Juan Gonzalez..The Big Hurt..Mo Vaughn..MO VAUGHN!! After last night when Ortiz tied the game...than won it there is no doubt that he is the MVP... not to mention A-Rod isnt even the best player on his team...
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I call bullshit on this one.
I DH'ed one year in HS and hit about .460 for the season. DH'ing is not that hard.
Anyone who could give the MVP to a DH over an everyday player has never played a lick of baseball in their life.
I could care less who wins it but I'd vote for A-Rod. If you think DH'ing is hard, try changing from SS to 3B and becoming one of the premier 3b's in the league all while hitting almost 50 HR's with a high avg.
That's more impressive to me.
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Am I the only one that thinks that A-Rod isn't that great of a third basemen? He's screwed up a lot over the last 2 years. Not official scorebook errors, but lots of screwups.
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