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AL MVP: Who you got?

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Who's the AL MVP?

  • David Ortiz

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Alex Rodriguez

    Votes: 20 37.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Total voters
    53
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LOL, pretty sure but the funny part is Theo Epstein would agree with me.
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Sure he would. And this quote was after the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the ALCS. I don't think Big Papi did anything this year to change Theo's mind.

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/news/bos_news.jsp?ymd=20041020&content_id=900963&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp

"David Ortiz put us on his back and delivered us a couple of wins and everyone else followed suit," Sox general manager Theo Epstein said. "He carried us this series and has been a clutch player for us all year. A fantastic player and a fantastic person."
 
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sears3820 said:
Sure he would. And this quote was after the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the ALCS. I don't think Big Papi did anything this year to change Theo's mind.

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/news/bos_news.jsp?ymd=20041020&content_id=900963&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp

"David Ortiz put us on his back and delivered us a couple of wins and everyone else followed suit," Sox general manager Theo Epstein said. "He carried us this series and has been a clutch player for us all year. A fantastic player and a fantastic person."
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So he's gonna piss on the reporters parade at that time and give you the full sabermetric rundown on why clutch doesn't exist? When the old lady asks if the dress makes her look fat what do you say?

He's as much a Bill James disciple as Beane is and no one from that crew believes that clutch can be proven to exist mathmatically. A player can have a big hit in a big situation for sure, he can even have a great year like Ortiz has had "late and close" but in the long run how a hitter does in the 1st inning is how he does in the 9th.
 
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So he's gonna piss on the reporters parade at that time and give you the full sabermetric rundown on why clutch doesn't exist?
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Yeah, I'm sure he was baited into that quote.

You can argue the mathematical side of it all you want. We've all seen Ortiz come through time after time when the game's on the line. Ortiz has a knack for delivering. The definition of clutch is tending to be successful in tense or critical situations. It does exist.

No way is an AB in the first and ninth compareable. Two different situations. You're telling me a player batting in the bottom 1st in a 1-0 ball game is going to have the same amount of pressure as the same guy batting in the bottom of the 9th in 1-0 ballgame? The AB in the 1st is nowhere near as crucial as the one in the 9th. You don't come through in the 1st, no big deal. You still have another 8 innings to make up for it. You blow the one in the 9th, game over.

Some guys rise to the occasion, other's assholes pucker up so tight they could eat coal and shit a diamond.

I say it exists, you don't. Fair enough?
 
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buck e said:
Are you talking about a third basemen covering third on a groundball hit to the shortstop with a runner on second? Maybe I'm not understanding your scenario.
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sorry....i've been gone. I wasn't saying he was out of position just for covering third, but he was out of position while covering third. he stands behind the bag and lets the ball come to him which 1) takes longer and 2) the ball hits the runner if it's a close play, or at the very least makes it harder to catch the ball causing it to get past gay-rod and letting the run score (which happened at least 2 times that I can remember and the homer YES announcers are the ones who pointed it out).
 
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Yes, it's true that Rodriguez isn't the premiere defensive third basemen in the league, but a clearly below average third basemen? No. Frankly, the guy deserves some valuable player credit for moving to a position that's not his ideal. In contrast, Papi's playing his best position by keeping his ass in the dugout.

BKB said:
RBI: Advantage Ortiz
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The only reason Ortiz has the slight advantage in this sole category is that you're comparing a guy who batted lead-off for half the season to a guy who batted clean-up.
 
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"Most Valuable Player" Without David Ortiz, think how many games this Red Sox team wouldn't have won? He is BY FAR the MVP of the team, league, and baseball. His numbers are huge, and he does it at clutch times.
 
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Again, despite the acronym, MVP is actually best player, not player without whom his team would have lost the most additional games. If it was the latter, the MVP would go to the best player on the otherwise crappiest team. But it never does.
 
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I guess you guys who are knocking Ortiz for being a DH are just as adamant about Dennis Eckersley, Roger Clemens, Willy Hernandez, Rollie Fingers, Vida Blue, Denny McLain, Bobby Shantz, Hal Newhouser (twice), Spud Chandler, Lefty Grove, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Newcombe, Jim Konstanty, Mort Cooper, Bucky Walters, Carl Hubbell (twice), and Dizzy Dean.

Hell, those AL MVP pitchers didn't even have to bat. All they did was pitch.
 
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No, I think that's an apples and oranges comparison. I do think that pitchers shouldn't be eligible for the MVP, since they've got the Cy Young reserved to themselves, but a pitcher, who is out there for half the game, once out of every five games, is different from a DH who is out there every game, but only for four to five at-bats.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
Whatever. Defense never mattered when it was comparing somebody like Rey Ordonez or Omar Vizquel to somebody like Sammy Sosa or Barry Bonds.
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I disagree. As a minor point, over his career Barry Bonds has been a very good left-fielder. And Sosa, well at least he took the field. More to the point, nobody who is arguing that Rodriguez should be the pick is saying that defense is the be-all and end-all of the MVP. Rather, the argument is that if you are a DH, and therefore contribute zero to defense, your offensive numbers had damn well better blow everyone else out of the water. Ortiz, while his numbers are excellent, does not meet that criterion. In fact, overall his numbers on offense are not as good. That being the case, where's the justification?
 
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Explain to me how his numbers aren't as good first of all. Both lead in different categories over the other. Secondly, Barry Bonds is good enough in left field....while Rey Ordonez was good enough with a bat in his hand. Where's the difference?
 
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Rodriguez beat Ortiz in every category except for RBI. This includes batting average, home runs, and slugging percentage, among others. Regarding RBI, as I mentioned above, Ortiz's lead there is hardly surprising considering that Rodriguez spent half the season at lead-off whereas Ortiz spent the entire season at clean-up. Actually, considering that fact, Ortiz's lead in this category should have been greater than it was.

As far as Ordonez and Bonds, I'm not arguing that race, but in that case at least Bonds made a contribution on defense. And a good one at that. You're right, Ordonez contributed good offensive production in addition to his exceptional defense, and if you want to argue that he should have been MVP, that's fine. But Bonds's case for MVP would have been far, far weaker if he had sat in the dugout while his teammates played defense.
 
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I'm not arguing Ordonez against Bonds. You brought it up because it was it was the only case you had against a defensive player (completely ignoring Sosa). Those were just 4 people I randomly picked....2 for defense and 2 for offense.

And don't give me the "Arod would have....if only....." bullshit. If my Aunt had had a dick she'd be my Uncle.
 
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I didn't bring up Ordonez or Bonds, I just said that playing defense, and playing it pretty well, should count for something in comparison to playing no defense.

And I'm not saying that Rodriguez "would have" done anything. He did what the team asked him to do. Ortiz had a lot of RBI, which you'd expect from your clean-up hitter. Rodriguez also had a lot of RBI, although slightly fewer, which you wouldn't necessarily expect from your lead-off batter. And while it's not unusual for a lead-off batter to have a higher batting average and on-base percentage than a clean-up guy, it is certainly unusual for him to have more home runs and a higher slugging percentage.
 
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