5 players suspended for 5 games in 2011 regular season (Appeal has been denied)

[JBaney45]

I see old pairs of gold pants and old rings all the time popping up on ebay (like old enough that they would definitely be from players who exhausted their eligibility). So these guys definitely wouldn't be the first to do it..it still is a bit mind boggling why you would. You'd like to think that it's because they aren't material people (they aren't throwing away their accomplishments after all, just physical representations of those accomplishments) but it certainly appears in this case they just didn't value them like they should have..you would have hoped that as they spent more time as Buckeyes they would learn to value them more.

Could it have been that the team as a whole was disappointed in only winning a split Big Ten Championship that season being that they had wanted to get back to the title game they had been to the 2 years prior and these freshmen just sort of adopted that feeling from their upperclassmen team mates? Obviously I don't really know just trying to speculate on their mind set.

 

[stkoran]

I am absolutely shocked at the number of people on this and other boards who are showing such animosity towards these players. We have Kirk Herbstreit sinking to a new low by excoriating Pryor nationally and amazingly stating that losing these young men from the program would be "addition by subtraction." Others a threatening to never support the university again.

Where is all of this hostility towards these 21 year old kids coming from?

Numerous people have stated that they are a disgrace to the university. Others seem dumbfounded that they could sell off their gold pants and Big Ten championship rings - items "treasured" by Buckeye fans far and wide.

Others think the University should take a stand and suspend them for the bowl game.

Many can't understand how the supposed leaders of our program (especially Terrelle) could pull such an appalling stunt.

It has seemed that ever since Terrelle got to OSU that he has never been good enough for the fans. "Oh, he had a great game, but that one pass was pretty bad." "He looks too frustrated when things aren't going well." "He needs to stop tweeting and spend more time working on his throwing motion." "He's no Troy Smith."

Let's talk about Troy Smith a bit. My feeling is that, in general, OSU fans hold him in higher regard than any Buckeye of the decade, and perhaps well beyond that. This is a guy who was cited for disorderly conduct as a freshman stemming from a campus fight. This is a guy who accepted $500 from a BOOSTER between the end of the regular season and the bowl game (which cost him two, not five games, though the bowl game was included). This was at at the end of Troy's third year in the program. Troy did not become the Tressel clone that everyone loves until his FIFTH year in the program. When he was introduced on senior night at the Michigan game, I have never heard a crowd embrace a player more. As well we should have.

Kids make mistakes. The sale of these items appears to have occurred sometime after the Fiesta Bowl during these while these players were FRESHMEN. It's not as if they went out two weeks ago and sold all this stuff.

But back the the vitriol being spewed at these players. Why? As I said above, Troy took cash FROM A BOOSTER, RIGHT BEFORE THE BOWL GAME. He is now a beloved Buckeye legend. Steve Bellisari was arrested for drunken driving and sat out only two games. I don't remember anyone abandoning the program because he played in the Outback Bowl. Again, he was ARRESTED FOR DRUNKEN DRIVING. He committed a dangerous crime and could have killed someone. Two games. But these kids sold some trinkets and suddenly they don't care about the University and aren't worth keeping around?

As for the "How could they sell these treasures!?!?!?" crowd - what do you care what they sold? Yes, of course we would "all die to have a pair of gold pants." But really, it's not the pants you want at all. Clearly, you can go buy a pair of gold pants for around $500 if you want. What you really want is to have suited up against Michigan and gotten a win. It's not the pants, it what they represent, and simply by these players selling them, they aren't losing that win. And neither are we. Don't you always feel kind of sad for the guy who still wears his high school state title ring every day, 30 years later? Would we feel better if they kept these objects in a box in their basements, never to look at them again?

How would we feel if news leaked that these five players all failed a post season drug test, but it was their first offense, so there would be no punishment? Is that better than selling some stuff? What if they sold off their Wiis or whatever they got for the Rose Bowl last year (I don't even know if that is a violation) because they already had one?

Did they break the rules? Yes. Should they be punished? Yes. Did they do anything morally blameworthy? No.

For they "suspend them for the Bowl crowd," remember, OSU did suspend them for the Bowl, but the NCAA reinstated them due to whatever crazy policy they came up with today. To review major player suspensions lately: Marcell Dareus accepted improper benefits ($2000 worth) from an agent and was suspended two games. A.J. Green sold his jersey for $1000 and was suspended one game by Georgia (seems fair). The NCAA claimed that the buyer was an agent, so he was ultimately suspended for four games. Our guys sell items, similar to Green, but to a non-agent, and also get four games, plus one for apparently not self-reporting (but did Green self-report)? And then there is of course Cam Newton who is free as a bird. I remain baffled how our guys are getting five games while Dareus gets two, even though an agent paid for him to come to an agent run party, or how our own Troy Smith can just straight up take cash from a booster in return for nothing at all and only get two games. I am glad OSU is appealing these suspensions and hope they are reduced, as there is no evidence at all than an agent or booster were involved in these sales.

These young men made a mistake, a few years ago at that, when they were even younger. They accept their punishment and we move ahead. To claim that these players don't care about OSU is absolutely incredible. For the life of me, I cannot remember one play over the past three years where I have though, "you know what? Pryor looks lackadaisical out there. It looks like he doesn't even care." It seems clear to me that the guy loves his teammates, love Ohio State, and has an insatiable desire to win. His offenses since enrolling include: supporting Mike Vick (who is now an NFL media darling) via his eye-black, saying that Herby is a "Fake Buckeye. Fake as hell" over Twitter after Kirk called him out on national TV, and saying that he would "dominate" if he played in a QBcentric system, all the while qualifying that all he wants to do is win, however that happens.

Terrelle Pryor has never had any legal trouble. He has never had any academic difficulty. He has never tested positive for drugs (as far a I know, and at least not twice). He plays incredibly hard and loves OSU. That much of Buckeye Nation now wants nothing to do with him, for him doing something that is sparking national debate over whether this rule should even exist, is very very sad. This is the only mistake these young men have made since enrolling (maybe Adams had something else, but I don't know the specifics of that), and in the big scheme of things it is really not a very big one. More of a "guys, you knew this was something against the rules" than a "your life is headed down a dark path" type infraction. Yet people who commit "dark path" violations are more often than not given a second chance, and often punished much less severely than our players are being, and for good reason.

People make mistakes. They should be given a chance to learn from them. That's how Troy Smith became the man we know and love. Why it should be any different for these five Buckeyes?

 

[Meyer]

His response was great. He said he totally and completely agreed with the e mail, but that the NCAA will not be looking at it from that perspective. He said I would do anything, even break laws to help my family in crisis, but the NCAA is looking at it differently

Which is fine with me, because I was not trying to make a point around the NCAA ruling, just that we all would do similar things if faced with family needs

I agree with your post.

But at the same time I disagree. They broke the rules and hurt every one of their teammates in that locker room. Knowing that as the quarterback this was Terrelle Pryor's team, that's really disheartening.

I know family is more important but I just have to believe that there were other ways to do this than to break the rules. Someone already said that you could give it to a family member and then they could do whatever they wanted with it, including sell it.

And don't try to tell me that at no point in their minds they didn't think, "this might be against the rules."

 

[Meyer]

I've pretty much avoided all media except BP for the last day and a half... for obvious reasons. I had to run into the office this morning (yeah, on Christmas Eve) for something and had e radio on.

I guess one thing that I find interesting about this entire matter is the conversations that it seems to be stirring up. I expect the conversations among us. I expect there to be some people who are ashamed, pissed, angry on one side and others who could give a flying-ef on the other... But the one thing that I expected to read among our opinions that I was absolutely surprised to hear are the discussions of hypocrisy pointed at the NCAA and BCS.

While this entire mess is just that... one whopping big pile of shit... it is somewhat heartening to hear so many people focus the discussion less on tOSU and the specific players and more on the theoretical implications of all that is going on in a much broader context.

The white elephant in the room is finally being talked about with a serious tone. With a little luck the bigger issue will remain the story and will lead to some things being fixed... cuz as of right now, it ain't just broken... it's really broken.

Just my observations for the day.

Merry Christmas to you all... and Happy Holidays to those of you who don't celebrate Christmas.

--sbb

Yea hopefully this will bring some attention to this shitty rule and get it altered or fixed. And hopefully that will result in a smaller suspension for our players.

 

[Meyer]

So AJ Green was backed into a corner because he sold the jersey and told no one and then when he was asked to produce the jersey and stated he'd sold it they viewed it as "coming clean"?

Shakes head. SEC logic right there.

Well obviously if he didn't know that it was wrong, why would he have a reason to tell anyone?? Especially coaches or compliance officials??

I'd say admitting to it when the facts are first presented to you is coming clean.

It's been stated numerous times that the OSU players got an extra game because they were clearly taught the rules.

 

[Meyer]

The comments in this board are outstanding and speak to the brilliant fans of Buckeye football:

1. Yes, the kids should be forced to sit out the bowl game and then have a discussion with the NCAA on the number of games suspended in 2011. The way these penalties are set the kids will leave for the NFL which seems counter intuitive.

2. The enforcement practices by the NCAA is beyond understanding. Yes, Auburn's true penalties are still to come, and as a graduate of the U of O I am glad that Cam Newton will be playing (I do not want any excuses when the Ducks win the game) - but he shouldn't be. Anyone reading the NCAA or SEC rules know they were violated and the enforcement should be immediate.

3. It is clear the NCAA has a double standard. No money for players but penalties will be delayed until it does not hurt the piggy bank of the NCAA. It does not take a masters degree for kids to figure out that we have a "do as I say, not as I do" policy.

You are outstanding fans of an athletic program with a tradition of excellence and deserve better than what the NCAA is shoveling.

Best of luck against the Razorbacks!

Good post. Thanks for the compliments.

 

[Wells4Heisman]

I'll be flaunting my T.P. Jersey gladly in New Orleans... He's given his all for the University and I still support him even if he didn't make the best decision.

 

[matcar]

Maybe he was a freshman that didn't appreciate it fully yet.
Maybe he doesn't need a trinket, or doesn't like jewelry.
Maybe a photo or a DVD is how he'd prefer to remember it.

Maybe he uses his memory to remember it.

Agreed. I don't give a crap what they sold. If it's not that important to them, no biggie. It's just that they did so against rules and to the team's detriment.

 

[nwbuckeye]

Without prying too much, do we know for sure how many of these player's families are really struggling right now? ONE of the common theme for those of you who are rationalizing the selling of these items, is that they did it for their family. Tattoos are not cheap, is it safe to say that maybe some of this money went to pay for the numerous ones some of the guys are sporting?

I am pretty sure that there are lots of slightly less talented football players in and around Ohio who would give their left buckeye nut to have been given the opportunity to win just ONE Big Ten ring or golden pants award. To sell even one or however many you may have unless your family is truly destitute, is to me horrible disrespectful to anybody who ever has and does wear the jersey of tOSU.

And speaking of the jersey, I root for the name on the front, not on the back. Do I want our team to go 12-0 and have a chance compete for the CG game each year, heck yes. But I have and will continue to root for my team regardless of it's record.

For those of you who think the poor student athlete is making "millions for the university", do not sell short the cost of tuition, room and board, food, books etc etc etc. The day that student athletes are paid is the day that I stop watching college sports. That is a slippery slope that is nothing but trouble for endless numbers of reason, not least of which is Title IX. You do realize of course if you pay the football player for example $5000 a month for filling the stands, you are going to have to pay the field hockey player and the rifle team member and everybody else on scholarship the same $5000. This would bankrupt almost every university out there.

Along the same lines, who is using whom here. How many student athletes would the majority of the american public heard of, if it weren't for the exposure they gained from playing their respective sport on TV thereby leading to fame and fortune at the next level. I am old enough to remember the few players who nod nod wink wink were "student athletes" but at least the majority of them went on to complete their degree, not all in molecular genetics mind you but a degree nonetheless. The one-and-done in college basketball is of course the worst abuse of the system out there. If the NBA wants somebody to be one year removed from highschool to be eligible to play, then please do not waste scholarships on somebody who has absolutely no intention of at least making an attempt to get their degree. I for one do not want our team to be filled with hired guns who play for a year then leave. As I said before having a great team is nice but I root for the name on the front, not the back. Do not take a scholarship away from somebody who needs it to get a real degree, those of you who rationalize the selling of items for the family should feel horrible for the student athlete whose potential schollie is given to somebody who uses his exposure on TV to jump to the next level.

Have the day off of work today, so sorry for the long winded rant. I am so fed up with professional sports that I would not walk across the street to watch a pro game if there was a college game of any sorts on TV. I realize that I am probably fighting a losing battle here but I can only hope that despite the huge amount of money out there, college sports will continue to be played by students who are trading their skills in a particular sport for the privilege of donning the school colors and having all the details that a scholarship offers being honored by the university.

These fine young men have made a mistake and will either learn from it or not. If anybody really needed the money for their family and not for themselves, then I assure you that none of the above is directed at them. My hope is that Tressel does the right thing and makes them sit out the bowl game and I as a fan of college athletics will root for whoever takes the field that day.

 

[3074326]

Did they break the rules? Yes. Should they be punished? Yes. Did they do anything morally blameworthy? No.

How is showing total disregard to your teammates not morally blameworthy? I disagree 100% with that statement. There's more than football at work here. These players jeopardized 80 teammates and a bunch of coaches' seasons next year and reputations. That's messed up and selfish. And certainly worthy of some bitterness from the fanbase, not even from a football perspective. I love more than OSU football, and I hate seeing this kind of stuff associated with the school. Especially when the school really had nothing to do with it.

 

[Tlangs]

Without prying too much, do we know for sure how many of these player's families are really struggling right now? The most common theme for those of you who are rationalizing the selling of these items, is that they did it for their family. Tattoos are not cheap, is it safe to say that maybe some of this money went to pay for the numerous ones some of the guys are sporting?

I am pretty sure that there are lots of slightly less talented football players in and around Ohio who would give their left buckeye nut to have been given the opportunity to win just ONE Big Ten ring or golden pants award. To sell even one or however many you may have unless your family is truly destitute, is to me horrible disrespectful to anybody who ever has and does wear the jersey of tOSU.

And speaking of the jersey, I root for the name on the front, not on the back. Do I want our team to go 12-0 and have a chance compete for the CG game each year, heck yes. But I have and will continue to root for my team regardless of it's record.

For those of you who think the poor student athlete is making "millions for the university", do not sell short the cost of tuition, room and board, food, books etc etc etc. The day that student athletes are paid is the day that I stop watching college sports. That is a slippery slope that is nothing but trouble for endless numbers of reason, not least of which is Title IX. You do realize of course if you pay the football player for example $5000 a month for filling the stands, you are going to have to pay the field hockey player and the rifle team member and everybody else on scholarship the same $5000. This would bankrupt almost every university out there.

Along the same lines, who is using whom here. How many student athletes would the majority of the american public heard of, if it weren't for the exposure they gained from playing their respective sport on TV thereby leading to fame and fortune at the next level. I am old enough to remember the few players who nod nod wink wink were "student athletes" but at least the majority of them went on to complete their degree, not all in molecular genetics mind you but a degree nonetheless. The one-and-done in college basketball is of course the worst abuse of the system out there. If the NBA wants somebody to be one year removed from highschool to be eligible to play, then please do not waste scholarships on somebody who has absolutely no intention of at least making an attempt to get their degree. I for one do not want our team to be filled with hired guns who play for a year then leave. As I said before having a great team is nice but I root for the name on the front, not the back. Do not take a scholarship away from somebody who needs it to get a real degree, those of you who rationalize the selling of items for the family should feel horrible for the student athlete whose potential schollie is given to somebody who uses his exposure on TV to jump to the next level.

Have the day off of work today, so sorry for the long winded rant. I am so fed up with professional sports that I would not walk across the street to watch a pro game if there was a college game of any sorts on TV. I realize that I am probably fighting a losing battle here but I can only hope that despite the huge amount of money out there, college sports will continue to be played by students who are trading their skills in a particular sport for the privilege of donning the school colors and having all the details that a scholarship offers being honored by the university.

These fine young men have made a mistake and will either learn from it or note. If anybody really needed the money for their family and not for themselves, then I assure you that none of the above is directed at them. My hope is that Tressel does the right thing and makes them sit out the bowl game and I as a fan of college athletics will root for whoever takes the field that day.

way too many words...

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Having digested however many pages there are in this thread, I've formed the following opinions/conclusions:

- Physical awards carry more meaning to some and less meaning to others, as some people are more sentimental and others not so. I can't judge someone's passion and commitment by whether or not they want to keep a ring or a necklace. It's a symbol and some people are more attached to a symbol than others. *I* would hold on to a significant item or trophy and do, but understand that others may not. Mili's Ironman number carries a lot of significance for him, however, I would expect that a significant percentage of his fellow competitors don't keep or display that. It doesn't mean they care less, train less, aren't brutally competitive swimming their last half mile or anything else. It just means that they don't attach the same symbolic meaning to a physical representation of that event. It's more a function of how one's memories and emotions are triggered than anything else.

- The NCAA is taking an unfair hit. Ohio State confessed. Georgia confessed in the A.J. Green case. In both situations, all of the evidence was gift-wrapped and presented by the universities and conferences. NO investigation took place. A report was filed, someone in Indy read it and handed down the standard penalty. In the Auburn case, Auburn did not present evidence of wrong doing. If Daddy Newton asked Auburn for money, the Pugalistic Buteoninae sure didn't include that in any report to the SEC or NCAA. All the NCAA had was a kid whose dad had asked an entirely different school for money. Just as Derek Morris was eligible at NC State even though it was reported by OSU that the Morris Clan were hustling their way through Buckeye boosters like a guy with a cardboard sign at an offramp during rush hour, until NCSU reports the same thing (HA!), he's eligible there. Keep in mind, selling jerseys and rings was a "loophole" as recently as 2003, and as we've seen, that loophole is closed. Now, once the NCAA actually INVESTIGATES Auburn, there will be a different story in all likelyhood. People need to understand that the NCAA has NOT investigated any of these three cases. They've read reports submitted by the universities which investigated themselves, and ruled accordingly. Sadly, you can't make up a rule that's not on the books. It should be, but it's not and hasn't been.

- The handwringing over how these kids did it to "help their families", until proven, is a rationalization. We don't know if they bought killer tats, beer, weed, Corvette tires, a kidney for a dying relative or donated it to Tim Tebow's favorite Phillipine charity. It's too early to be playing the "I DON
T BLAME THEM I WOULD KILL FIVE MILLION CHINESE PEOPLE WITH MY BARE HANDS TO SAVE MY BELOVED FAMILY FROM PSORIASIS!!!!!" card. If that's really the case, it's going to be a mitigating factor. If it's not, then that's shameless pandering. It may very well be a factor for some and not others. The one poster who knows a player, Mike Adams, has stated that his family was truly in a bad financial position at the time, so that's plausible. Until he comes out and says, either to OSU, the NCAA or publicly "I sold this stuff and gave the money to my parents for their rent/mortgage/groceries/medical bills" then we don't really have a whole lot of ground to stand on. The "helping my family" card is very emotional and powerful. If we're going to use it, it had better be true.

- Given the length of the NCAA rulebook, and given that this rule is fairly recent, it's *possible* that the players didn't know. However, when in doubt, don't you ask? Going to a school where Troy Smith, prominent player and Heisman winner, nearly tanked his career over $500, wouldn't you check first with compliance people? Yeah, 19 year old kids. I know. You're just looking for rules to break -- drinking, texting while driving, smoking a little. Pawning off a jersey and a necklace for a little cash is just another line being pushed. Still, there's a huge responsibility to your teammates to follow ALL rules that could cause your conduct to impact them, and I think that's the biggest failing here. I am less concerned as to what the actual rule is. If you know you'll miss games if you don't wear green on St. Patrick's day, then you'd better be head to toe in green. It's part of being a disciplined player. Troy let his team down, then learned not to do it again and had a great season. Let's hope for the same from these guys.

- I also don't understand why it's five games next year and not the bowl this year. Again, Troy Smith. $500 and misses the Alamo. Make all of them miss the Sugar and call it a day. I'd say that a BCS game is worth as much (or more) than playing the three tuneup games, Miami in whatever their stadium is called this week, and next year's MSU squad. All I can think is that the university wanted them for the bowl and was willing to fall on their sword and throw compliance under the bus a little to do it. The other possibility is that it gives more time for an appeal to possibly reduce the number of games missed, which I don't think is going to happen. Someone's got to pay for Cam-gate, and the timing of this is perfect...perfectly awful.

/rant Merry Christmas! :)

 

[jwinslow]

The most common theme for those of you who are rationalizing the selling of these items, is that they did it for their family.

Not really, I'd say that is a very small chunk of the reasons folks have given. Most that "rationalize" or forgive the mistake feel it is up to them what to do with their trinkets and belongings. Matcar nailed it in the above post.

 

[Saw31]

Dumb question from a non-buckeye.

Who pays for the gold pants charms when you beat Michigan? I'm not suggesting its a bad thing at all, but when/how did the tradition start?

Greenies for help/education :)

Wiki Link

Relevant paragraph if you don't want to read the whole thing...

Michigan won three of four contests between 1930 and 1933, claiming the national championship twice. In 1934, Francis Schmidt came on as the head coach for Ohio State. The team had lost nine of the previous 12 Michigan-OSU contests, and when a reporter asked Schmidt if Ohio State could beat Michigan that year, he replied, "Of course we can win, Michigan puts their pants on one leg at a time just like we do". The Buckeyes thereupon ran off four straight shutout victories against Michigan, outscoring the Wolverines 112-0 from 1934 to 1937. Schmidt's quote spawned an OSU tradition - since 1934, every Ohio State player receives a gold pants pendant after a victory against Michigan.

In the long list of TOSU traditions, this one ranks somewhere at the top of the list and is why so many are really pissed about this...
Don't know who pays for them.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Haha you tell 'em Mark! Cam totally got screwed when the NCAA suspended...wait a minute here.

Well NCAA served A.J. Green a much harsher punishment than these players...oh wait that's right, they didn't.

What's Mark May's point again?

He hates the Big Ten. He hates that Pitt has always been in the shadow of the Big Ten. He hates that Penn State was tapped on the shoulder while Pitt was ignored. He hates that Pitt has an all time 66-107-6 record against the conference and losing records to 9 of the 11 schools. He hates that Pitt was passed over once again. He hates that Pitt is irrelevant.