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*2024 tCun Shenanigans, Arguments, Cobras, Feckless Marmots, Fake Pandas, Dirty Cheaters

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Zurp said:
They're not going to get any forfeits. They SHOULD, but they won't.
I'll enjoy eating the crow if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're going to vacate any wins.
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Not taking the wins but giving them a bowl ban makes no sense though. They’d be punishing the future players without punishing those who commit the crimes.

I don’t think you can punish them without taking the wins.
 
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Captain Buckeye said:
Not taking the wins but giving them a bowl ban makes no sense though. They’d be punishing the future players without punishing those who commit the crimes.

I don’t think you can punish them without taking the wins.
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So.... that's how the NCAA works - punish the later players and not the ones who did anything wrong.
Again, I think the NCAA should forfeit those games. But they won't. Next choice is to vacate the wins. But I have trouble believing they'll do that, too.
The bowl ban hurts the university in that it gets them less revenue and less exposure on TV, and hurts recruiting. But it also hurts the current players. But they can just transfer out, so it doesn't hurt them that much. So I think the post-season ban is cool.
Taking the wins away doesn't make a lot of sense. Say someone comes out and says that Ohio State vacates their 2014 playoff games. Or the Sugar Bowl against Arkansas in 2010-2011. I mean, I have a DVD of Ohio State beating Alabama and Oregon. Those games happened. Is the NCAA going to come into my house and take those DVD's? Am I not allowed to watch the game against Arkansas? And, unfortunately, fans of the cheaters are going to be able to say that their games happened - they beat Ohio State 3 years in a row. Put as many asterisks on that sentence as you want, but it still happened.
I don't have an alternative. The asterisk is better than no asterisk. I vote that their wins be forfeited. And, again, since I really don't think the forfeits will happen, vacating the wins is the next best option. But I am very pessimistic that that will happen, too. About the most I can see happening is a 2-year post-season ban.
I'd love to eat the crow, though, if I'm wrong.
 
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Zurp said:
So.... that's how the NCAA works - punish the later players and not the ones who did anything wrong.
Again, I think the NCAA should forfeit those games. But they won't. Next choice is to vacate the wins. But I have trouble believing they'll do that, too.
The bowl ban hurts the university in that it gets them less revenue and less exposure on TV, and hurts recruiting. But it also hurts the current players. But they can just transfer out, so it doesn't hurt them that much. So I think the post-season ban is cool.
Taking the wins away doesn't make a lot of sense. Say someone comes out and says that Ohio State vacates their 2014 playoff games. Or the Sugar Bowl against Arkansas in 2010-2011. I mean, I have a DVD of Ohio State beating Alabama and Oregon. Those games happened. Is the NCAA going to come into my house and take those DVD's? Am I not allowed to watch the game against Arkansas? And, unfortunately, fans of the cheaters are going to be able to say that their games happened - they beat Ohio State 3 years in a row. Put as many asterisks on that sentence as you want, but it still happened.
I don't have an alternative. The asterisk is better than no asterisk. I vote that their wins be forfeited. And, again, since I really don't think the forfeits will happen, vacating the wins is the next best option. But I am very pessimistic that that will happen, too. About the most I can see happening is a 2-year post-season ban.
I'd love to eat the crow, though, if I'm wrong.
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I heard a stat yesterday that the NCAA has never implemented a bowl ban without vacating wins.

It’s just something that’s never done. I second that I hope you’re wrong lol
 
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Captain Buckeye said:
I heard a stat yesterday that the NCAA has never implemented a bowl ban without vacating wins.

It’s just something that’s never done. I second that I hope you’re wrong lol
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Interesting. That doesn't seem right, but I have no evidence that the statement is wrong. And I'm not going to do any research, so I have no choice but to accept it.

zbuck said:
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Just because those two numbers are the same, doesn't mean they always go hand-in-hand.
 
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So many thoughts on this news. But to distill them, I agree if you don't vacate wins and forfeit the title, then nobody is really punished except mostly players and coaches that did not participate in the cheating.

A 1-2 year postseason ban is probably not even a punishment given that ttun is not likely going to get there under the current circumstances. I guess it sends a message, but does it have an actual deterrent effect? I don't think it does and there really needs to be consequences for Harbaugh and the wins that were aided by cheating.
 
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RB07OSU said:
So many thoughts on this news. But to distill them, I agree if you don't vacate wins and forfeit the title, then nobody is really punished except mostly players and coaches that did not participate in the cheating.

A 1-2 year postseason ban is probably not even a punishment given that ttun is not likely going to get there under the current circumstances. I guess it sends a message, but does it have an actual deterrent effect? I don't think it does and there really needs to be consequences for Harbaugh and the wins that were aided by cheating.
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A 1 year postseason ban I don't think does anything at all. Multiple years probably has at least a slight effect on recruiting and being able to land any good portal guys.

For a school that was so desperate to beat their rival and win the B1G and a national title, no it's not a deterrent though. I'm sure they'd absolutely do it again in like another 5 years if it meant beating Ohio State, winning the B1G and getting another national title then just eat a 1-2 year postseason ban when you likely weren't going to make it anyway.
 
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My hunch is that it will be one extreme or the other. Bad case scenario is that they just can't publicly admit that tcun compromised the integrity of the on-field product for three straight years, and they sweep as much under the rug as they can and give a minimal slap on the wrist. If, on the other hand, they are willing to publicly acknowledge that then I think they have to hit them hard with vacated wins and at least a two year post season ban. Unfortunately, they've already said the title is off limits.
 
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