2015 Offense Discussion

[Bestbuck36]

Only thing I'm a hundred percent on at this time is that Dontre has to touch the football a little more. That catch and acceleration on Saturday was breathtaking and it wasnt even a good pass. Him coming from one direction, Samuel from the other with Braxton coming from who knows where, should work when we get it figured out. Matter of fact a little more misdirection might be a tasty elixir.

 

[bukIpower]

Only thing I'm a hundred percent on at this time is that Dontre has to touch the football a little more. That catch and acceleration on Saturday was breathtaking and it wasnt even a good pass. Him coming from one direction, Samuel from the other with Braxton coming from who knows where, should work when we get it figured out. Matter of fact a little more misdirection might be a tasty elixir.

I'd like to see all of these options... I'd actually like to see us take the TE off the field once in a while and throw in one of our speed guys. I know it takes away from the blocking but I'm inclined to think there would be a mismatch somewhere

 

[scarletngray]

I've heard Urban call out one guy in particular a couple times. Their name isn't in there and I don't feel like getting flak for it.
Corey has some issues, but he's never been shy about hitting people.

Agreed. Just wasn't at his best last Saturday and of course missed the first game.

 

[Hstead]

I'd like to see all of these options... I'd actually like to see us take the TE off the field once in a while and throw in one of our speed guys. I know it takes away from the blocking but I'm inclined to think there would be a mismatch somewhere

I noticed we did do exactly that a couple of times Saturday in 3rd downs and I liked it. I have always preferred Wilson to Marshall myself. I think he is faster, shiftyier, and 8makes better decisions on punts.

Wilson got quite a few snaps Saturday. Braxton actually sat quite a bit too.

 

[OSUK]

I am by no means a football expert, and I didn't play at a place like Ohio State, but I was around a few locker rooms. We don't like to think Urban is fallible, but I think he has mishandled this QB thing horribly, and I think it bothers enough offensive players that it is affecting their play.

The evidence for JT was pretty over-whelming IMO. There was a 12 game resume that included a shaky start, a dismal failure, steady improvement, demonstration of leadership and toughness, and 45 freaking TD's accounted for. This is the reigning All-B1G QB we are talking about here. In addition, he was chosen by his teammates to be a SOPHOMORE captain. Gentlemen, this sounds like someone I want to lead that team and offense, but more importantly, it is someone who the team wants to lead them by consensus. This is why I was absolutely shocked when Cardale ran out there vs. VT.

Herbie said during the VT broadcast that the coaching staff said, "Don't we have to give this down-field passing approach a chance?" I get that, but that was something that came from necessity (maybe even desperation) where they had to throw out some concepts of the offense and add some new things to accommodate what Cardale did best and what he couldn't do well or at all. At that point, it was pointless for players to pine for the old offense because the QB who could run that offense was on the sideline on crutches. But now he is back, and I think there are linemen and skill players who don't know what their identity is and are split on what they should be doing. One year ago if we asked the question: What is the staple play in the OSU offense? The answer would be: The read option. What is it now? I honestly can't tell. Maybe the offensive coaching staff knows what they want it to be, but they haven't established it, and I don't think the players know.

I would like to see them clarify their identity, announce JT as the guy, and simplify things down to what the players want to run and have confidence in. The offense should be focused on giving opportunities primarily to Mike Thomas, Ezekiel Elliott, and Braxton Miller, and secondarily Marshall/Wilson and the TE, and then let the other skill people take advantage of the opportunities that will present to them during the course of 75 plays. As it is, they appear to not know what they want to do or how they want to do it.

That said, I believe this will get corrected. This JT/Cardale decision isn't exactly on the same plane as the decision to start Joe B over Braxton, but I do believe it is in the same neighborhood. To those who say JT hasn't played much or any better than Cardale, I think we need to see what he looks like when he is given the starting job and is able to prepare with starting QB reps. I bet we will like what we see.

 

[kujirakira]

I dont think anyone has an issue saying Meyer makes mistakes. What i like about him is how he'll say it straight up, learn from it, improve.
It seems after hawaii excuses were made and it was business as usual.... after niu alarms are going off. I dont expect a 1 week turnaround but theyre working on it and believe itll get figured out

 

[lvbuckeye]

FILM STUDY: WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE OHIO STATE OFFENSE?

Despite being enough to hold on to the No. 1 spot in both polls, few close to the Ohio State football program will tell you they were pleased with Saturday's 20-13 home win over Northern Illinois.

Although the defense once again played like a championship unit, the offense struggled to put up points throughout a contest in which the Buckeyes were 34-point favorites. Both quarterbacks Cardale Jones and J.T. Barrett were given the chance to lead a unit expected by many to be the most explosive collection of talent in the nation, yet ultimately had to rely on a defensive touchdown to come away with a win.

As head coach Urban Meyer met with the media following the game, he reiterated the tone felt by many and acknowledging that the offense has questions that must be answered. But the man who doubles as the program's CEO and ultimate leader of offensive game planning failed to place blame in one specific area, instead saying both the coaches and players must improve.

To many fans, coaching is effectively a code word for the play-calling when things go awry offensively, and every coordinator in program history has been publicly questioned before. Even the beloved and recently departed Tom Herman was criticized during his stint with the Buckeyes, first for the loss to Michigan State in the 2013 Big Ten title game, and again after failing to beat Virginia Tech last fall.

For many, the easy answer for the 2015 offense's struggles lay at the feet of Herman's replacement, Ed Warinner. After reviewing the tape though, that assessment seems unfair.

As we all know by now, the Huskies opened the game up with the same three-man front that gave the Buckeyes some trouble against Hawai'i the previous week. Center Jacoby Boren would almost always have a nose guard lined up directly across from him, while two ends played just outside tackles Taylor Decker and Chase Farris.

To make things difficult though, this unit, often along with an outside linebacker, would slant across the face of the blocker in front of them, away from the strength of the formation. This slant was effective at clogging up inside runs like the 'tight zone' and 'Power-O' that are the foundation of the Buckeye offense, not allowing the guards to get to the second level and block the linebackers.

In the example below, we see right guard Pat Elflein (No. 65) pull left to lead Elliott through the hole. But on his way there, the end to that side has slanted down inside, picking him off and occupying two OSU blockers, which ultimately leaves the inside linebacker free to make an easy tackle.

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Much more: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...study-whats-wrong-with-the-ohio-state-offense

In that first .gif, if he doesn't pull a Flydell Ross and run straight up the lead blocker's backside, he could cut left and have miles of daylight.

 

[bukIpower]

In that first .gif, if he doesn't pull a Flydell Ross and run straight up the lead blocker's backside, he could cut left and have miles of daylight.

this has happened A LOT so far this season. I know in a article I've read it stated we have tried to hit the cut back lanes since defenses' are slanting their defensive line but man did we miss a few of those suckers that were wide open.

 

[bukIpower]

I am by no means a football expert, and I didn't play at a place like Ohio State, but I was around a few locker rooms. We don't like to think Urban is fallible, but I think he has mishandled this QB thing horribly, and I think it bothers enough offensive players that it is affecting their play.

The evidence for JT was pretty over-whelming IMO. There was a 12 game resume that included a shaky start, a dismal failure, steady improvement, demonstration of leadership and toughness, and 45 freaking TD's accounted for. This is the reigning All-B1G QB we are talking about here. In addition, he was chosen by his teammates to be a SOPHOMORE captain. Gentlemen, this sounds like someone I want to lead that team and offense, but more importantly, it is someone who the team wants to lead them by consensus. This is why I was absolutely shocked when Cardale ran out there vs. VT.

Herbie said during the VT broadcast that the coaching staff said, "Don't we have to give this down-field passing approach a chance?" I get that, but that was something that came from necessity (maybe even desperation) where they had to throw out some concepts of the offense and add some new things to accommodate what Cardale did best and what he couldn't do well or at all. At that point, it was pointless for players to pine for the old offense because the QB who could run that offense was on the sideline on crutches. But now he is back, and I think there are linemen and skill players who don't know what their identity is and are split on what they should be doing. One year ago if we asked the question: What is the staple play in the OSU offense? The answer would be: The read option. What is it now? I honestly can't tell. Maybe the offensive coaching staff knows what they want it to be, but they haven't established it, and I don't think the players know.

I would like to see them clarify their identity, announce JT as the guy, and simplify things down to what the players want to run and have confidence in. The offense should be focused on giving opportunities primarily to Mike Thomas, Ezekiel Elliott, and Braxton Miller, and secondarily Marshall/Wilson and the TE, and then let the other skill people take advantage of the opportunities that will present to them during the course of 75 plays. As it is, they appear to not know what they want to do or how they want to do it.

That said, I believe this will get corrected. This JT/Cardale decision isn't exactly on the same plane as the decision to start Joe B over Braxton, but I do believe it is in the same neighborhood. To those who say JT hasn't played much or any better than Cardale, I think we need to see what he looks like when he is given the starting job and is able to prepare with starting QB reps. I bet we will like what we see.

Haven't you been watching the game? It's either the bobbled snap, the rub route, or my favorite the touch pass. Who the hell needs a zone read when you have the mother fucking touch pass baby

 

[ScriptOhio]

Size does not always equate to toughness. Campbell is doing OK (and has good size), the real problem seems to be Smith who whiffed on some easy blocks on Saturday. Definitely need more physical play from the WR group though.

Just sayin': It isn't just Smith and the WRs, I happened to notice that Vannett (i.e. the TE) wasn't able to sustain his block a few times too. The result was the defense's "containment guy" on the end getting into our backfield and stopping Elliot before he actually got started and/or could turn the corner. I'm of the opinion here that the team is not real deep at TE so Vannett definitely needs to "step it up" too.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Just sayin': It isn't just Smith and the WRs, I happened to notice that Vannett (i.e. the TE) wasn't able to sustain his block a few times too. The result was the defense's "containment guy" on the end getting into our backfield and stopping Elliot before he actually got started and/or could turn the corner. I'm of the opinion here that the team is not real deep at TE so Vannett definitely needs to "step it up" too.

When it comes to blocking, it feels like the whole team is going for 1-2 seconds instead of the 4-6 that was stressed so much last year. I see them getting on guys, but they don't sustain the blocks.

 

[OSUK]

Haven't you been watching the game? It's either the bobbled snap, the rub route, or my favorite the touch pass. Who the hell needs a zone read when you have the mother fucking touch pass baby

LOL.

I don't care what the actual play concept is that they want to be their staple, but pick one and go with it so that you have your identity. JT did well last year with the zone read, and then he was very good with short to intermediate passing off of the zone read with play-action. Urban said the other day, "The zone read is no longer a part of our offense." OK. They replaced it with counter/power concepts, but Ezekiel isn't exactly setting records with that. Defenses are setting up to stop that and QB run as their #1 priority, so our playcallers seem willing to pass and run to the edges to set up the inside run later - but they couldn't establish any of those last Saturday. It feels to me like they wanted the long pass to be a staple, but when that didn't work because of protection or execution issues by the QB and/or receivers, they have gone to "let's try this, no this, no that."

The coaches have said some things I think are highly questionable: 1) These QBs have the same skill sets 2) The offense should not change regardless of which is playing. Cardale has a cannon for an arm, doesn't run that well laterally, but can run well vertically once he has a couple of steps to get going - and then he can punish tacklers. JT has good touch and accuracy in the short to intermediate range (at least he did last year), and he can run laterally and get up the field - and make people miss. The offense we have right now seems geared toward Cardale's strengths, and is clearly not the offense that JT was so successful with last year. Basically, when JT is playing, he is playing an offense that was designed for Cardale. None of JT's running ability comes into play if he is turning around and handing off on the power/counter concepts, but the zone read does bring it into play and gives the defense a ball carrier that is not accounted for.

So, before this gets solved, the offensive braintrust has to settle on a QB, settle on an offense that accentuates that QB's strengths, and then establish an identity that the players believe in and are confident in executing.

Even tho I am a JT guy, if they are going to have this long ball/power run offense, they should start Cardale and keep him in the entire game, sink or swim.

 

[ScriptOhio]

SEARCHING FOR ANSWERS OFFENSIVELY, URBAN MEYER AND OHIO STATE EXPLORING IDEA OF ALTERING PLAY CALLING DUTIES

We don't do this anyways, it's not the quarterback, it's not the O-line, it's a variety of things that we have to play better," Meyer said Monday. "If you look historically what an Ohio State offense is for us, it's control the line of scrimmage, best perimeter blocking in America, which we had last year, and a very good, solid playaction passing attack. That's not what's going on. So we're going to get that fixed."

That's a bunch of things that need fixed on a unit expected to rival some of the best offenses ever heading into the 2015 season, mainly due to an embarrassment of riches at quarterback, a stud running back and too many talented wide receivers to count.

One thing that's supremely different from the last year to this year, however, is Tom Herman is no longer calling plays in the press box during Ohio State games. He's roaming the sidelines as the head coach of the Houston Cougars.

Instead, it's offensive line coach Ed Warinner calling the plays for the Buckeyes, doing so from the sideline instead of up top like Herman did for three years in Columbus. Tim Beck is in Herman's place during games, filling in as quarterbacks coach. Warinner has his own duties with the offensive linemen, too, but with a less than impressive offensive output the last two weeks against Hawai'i and Northern Illinois, Meyer said the Buckeyes are considering possibly switching where plays are called from during games.
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"It's not working," Meyer said of playing guarded on offense. "So we're going to take a more aggressive approach to how we go about our business."
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Entire article: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...yer-and-ohio-state-exploring-idea-of-altering

 

[SEREbuckeye]

LOL.

I don't care what the actual play concept is that they want to be their staple, but pick one and go with it so that you have your identity. JT did well last year with the zone read, and then he was very good with short to intermediate passing off of the zone read with play-action. Urban said the other day, "The zone read is no longer a part of our offense." OK. They replaced it with counter/power concepts, but Ezekiel isn't exactly setting records with that. Defenses are setting up to stop that and QB run as their #1 priority, so our playcallers seem willing to pass and run to the edges to set up the inside run later - but they couldn't establish any of those last Saturday. It feels to me like they wanted the long pass to be a staple, but when that didn't work because of protection or execution issues by the QB and/or receivers, they have gone to "let's try this, no this, no that."

The coaches have said some things I think are highly questionable: 1) These QBs have the same skill sets 2) The offense should not change regardless of which is playing. Cardale has a cannon for an arm, doesn't run that well laterally, but can run well vertically once he has a couple of steps to get going - and then he can punish tacklers. JT has good touch and accuracy in the short to intermediate range (at least he did last year), and he can run laterally and get up the field - and make people miss. The offense we have right now seems geared toward Cardale's strengths, and is clearly not the offense that JT was so successful with last year. Basically, when JT is playing, he is playing an offense that was designed for Cardale. None of JT's running ability comes into play if he is turning around and handing off on the power/counter concepts, but the zone read does bring it into play and gives the defense a ball carrier that is not accounted for.

So, before this gets solved, the offensive braintrust has to settle on a QB, settle on an offense that accentuates that QB's strengths, and then establish an identity that the players believe in and are confident in executing.

Even tho I am a JT guy, if they are going to have this long ball/power run offense, they should start Cardale and keep him in the entire game, sink or swim.

My only beef with selling out the offensive style for Cardale -sink or swim - is whether or not it's worth it. Next year JT is the starter and are we going to have to retool back to the zone read?

 

[bukIpower]

My only beef with selling out the offensive style for Cardale -sink or swim - is whether or not it's worth it. Next year JT is the starter and are we going to have to retool back to the zone read?

Exactly and I've never thought of it that way before. Couldn't agree more and such a resonating way to put it.. When next year rolls around and we lose at least 3 starters on the OL, our RB, our best WR, and Braxton that's the time we need to be teaching these guys the zone read? Why not just keep it apart of the offense and teach these young guys this year so that next year it's mastered.

I know if Xbox if I have two QB's that both are rated the same I always go with the underclassmen due to having more room to grow... If JT starts now we'll be just as good this year even it CJ was playing lights out and then next year there's no transition in a time where we really could benefit from returning our previous years starting QB.