2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[kujirakira]

I would like to see all 3 QBs play in all games. Make the defense prepare for lots of scenarios. The QB whose strengths exploit a given team's defense the most, should play. If there is a defense that can stop the QB run but not the long pass, put in 12 Gauge, etc. Or vice versa.

Similar but I'm thinking more "horses for courses".
Against Alabama, Cardale was able to shine. They had a weakness all year with that CB getting beat deep... Ole Miss and Auburn exploited it (they subbed him out against Auburn).
Cardale -> Devin was a perfect fit to that weakness. The staff clearly saw it and prepped the team, and the players executed it perfectly. That game was made for Cardale's strengths.

Against a team like MSU, I'd personally favor JT's "slow" (a lot of plays) inevitable march down the field. Their defense is generally sound, but JT is an outstanding distributor and they can't defend all the skill players Urban has amassed. It also allowed us to control the clock a bit -- kept their offense from getting into a rhythm, kept our defense rested, allowed the staff time to ensure we controlled and accounted for Lippett and Langford and limit their big plays (their O revolved around those 2 guys making big plays.)

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

How much of that was also Urban leaning on Eze to carry us? Certainly that's what happened against Oregon - they couldn't handle the unbalanced looks and wrinkles that Herman and Urban threw at them. They knew exactly what was coming at them with those counters over and over again... they just couldn't stop it regardless of who was behind center.
Urban took the ball out of Cardale's hands after the terrible blunders in the 2nd and 3rd quarter allowing Ducks to hang around.

In the Wisconsin and Alabama games, Zeke had only 20 carries each game and yet ran for 220 and 230 yards. And no, he didn't take the ball out of Cardale's hands against Oregon. Our first two drives of the second half against the Ducks ended with turnovers (deflection INT and Cardale's imitation of Jameis Winston), yet on the next drive he had a 17-yard completion on first down to Michael Thomas, with the drive ending with a TD. On the next drive he hit Thomas again on first down for 23 yards, and then hit Jalin Marshall for 17 yards on third and five, and that drive also ended with a TD. You don't pass on first down in the national title game if you're taking the ball out of the QB's hands. We only started feeding Zeke on nearly every down after Oregon surprisingly punted back to us with 7:47 left in the game and down 15 points.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

How much of that was also Urban leaning on Eze to carry us? Certainly that's what happened against Oregon - they couldn't handle the unbalanced looks and wrinkles that Herman and Urban threw at them. They knew exactly what was coming at them with those counters over and over again... they just couldn't stop it regardless of who was behind center.
Urban took the ball out of Cardale's hands after the terrible blunders in the 2nd and 3rd quarter allowing Ducks to hang around.

Zeke carried the ball 20 times against Wisconsin and Alabama and got 220 and 230 yards. And no, Meyer didn't take the ball out of Cardale's hands in the second half against Oregon. The first two drives of the second half ended with turnovers, yet on the third possession Cardale had a 17-yard completion to Michael Thomas on first down and then drive ended with a TD. On the next drive, he had another first-down completion to Thomas, for 23 yards and then a 19-yarder to Jalin Marshall on third and five, and that drive also ended with a TD. If you're taking the ball out of the QB's hands, you don't throw on first down (twice) and you don't throw on third and five when you have a runner with about 220 yards already. Meyer only started feeding the ball to Zeke on nearly every down after Oregon punted with 7:47 left in the game and Meyer went into clock-burning mode.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

I would like to see all 3 QBs play in all games. Make the defense prepare for lots of scenarios. The QB whose strengths exploit a given team's defense the most, should play. If there is a defense that can stop the QB run but not the long pass, put in 12 Gauge, etc. Or vice versa.

That's been my thinking all along. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

 

[Zurp]

Zeke carried the ball 20 times against Wisconsin and Alabama and got 220 and 230 yards. And no, Meyer didn't take the ball out of Cardale's hands in the second half against Oregon. The first two drives of the second half ended with turnovers, yet on the third possession Cardale had a 17-yard completion to Michael Thomas on first down and then drive ended with a TD. On the next drive, he had another first-down completion to Thomas, for 23 yards and then a 19-yarder to Jalin Marshall on third and five, and that drive also ended with a TD. If you're taking the ball out of the QB's hands, you don't throw on first down (twice) and you don't throw on third and five when you have a runner with about 220 yards already. Meyer only started feeding the ball to Zeke on nearly every down after Oregon punted with 7:47 left in the game and Meyer went into clock-burning mode.

To add, I think most of us wanted Elliot to carry the ball more in that game. And not because Jones wasn't performing, but because Elliot was in epic beast-mode. He was more Carlos Hyde than Carlos Hyde that night. Urban Meyer was letting Jones handle the ball far more than I wanted him to.

 

[Buckeneye]

To add, I think most of us wanted Elliot to carry the ball more in that game. And not because Jones wasn't performing, but because Elliot was in epic beast-mode. He was more Carlos Hyde than Carlos Hyde that night. Urban Meyer was letting Jones handle the ball far more than I wanted him to.

I love me some Carlos, but after what I witnessed in the B1G Ship, Sugar Bowl and The Natty... I think Zeke Mode has replaced the Hyde references.

 

[HilmerJ]

zeke did to alabama what hyde did to illinois

not to take anything away from the guap...he's on my niners!

i think we will jones start vs VT....if he wins...oh boy

 

[cincibuck]

I wholeheartedly disagree with "especially better than Cardale". Cardale has been here a year longer, and has worked really hard to overcome the "we ain't here to play school" stigma. Barrett may be somewhat more knowledgeable than Miller or Jones, but I don't think the difference is that much at all.

Not disagreeing, but going with a direct quote from Urban following the NC game. "We watered down the play book when JT went down." In the rest of the interview he stated that Miller was someone who frequently went off script, "But he was such a natural athlete, he could do things you can't coach... that we just left him alone." He also said much the same about Cardale.

 

[kujirakira]

Disclaimer: I have no issue with any of the 3 QBs starting and Cardale is a hero. But that doesn't excuse hyperbole.

You can write as many paragraphs as you like, but the facts don't mesh. The game was taken out of Cardale's hands when Oregon closed to 21-20 after 4 turnovers.

Cardale
1st:
6/9 62yds, TD
5/17yds

4/6 106yds
7/27yds, TD, Fumble

4/6 31yds, INT
7/-9yds, Fumble

2/2 42yds
2/8yds

total touches by quarter: 14, 13, 13, 4

Eze
1st: 7/63yds, TD
2nd: 4/35yds
3rd: 13/115yds, TD
4th: 12/39yds, 2 TD

total touches by quarter: 7,4,13,12


It's not a coincidence that after Oregon came within a point in the 3rd Quarter, Eze scored all the remaining points (3 TDs) while amassing 83yds.
Samuel and Corey also took carries after this point - after having 0 carries in the preceding 38+ minutes. Highlighting the fact that Urban was riding the ground game even when Eze needed a breather. This is also reflected in the box score - 61 carries, 23 pass attempts.

The commentators* also noted that the constraint to those unbalanced counters was a numbers check by the QB to the unbalanced side. If Oregon stopped honoring that threat, Cardale was supposed to throw a screen to the eligible SE. Oregon stopped honoring it... that check never occurred.
There were also no more read-options. In fact I can't remember a single read play after the 4 turnovers. Everything was a 100% designed run or pass.

*either the coach feed or off the ball feed, can't remember

 

[HilmerJ]

zeke really took the game over at 21-20...but cardale to devin smith was still in the defense minds...when cardale is on the field...you gotta respect his arm...especially with a coach as ballsy as meyer

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

You can write as many paragraphs as you like, but the facts don't mesh. The game was taken out of Cardale's hands when Oregon closed to 21-20 after 4 turnovers.

I watched the game. While the offense did indeed shift to a more run-based attack, the ball was hardly taken from Cardale's hands.

Eze
1st: 7/63yds, TD
2nd: 4/35yds
3rd: 13/115yds, TD
4th: 12/39yds, 2 TD

total touches by quarter: 7,4,13,12

Zeke had four carries for 37 yards before the deflection INT (not Cardale's fault), and three more carries for 24 yards before Cardale's gaff. So, over half of his carries (seven) and over half his yardage (61) in the third quarter came before then second turnover, the point at which you claim the game was taken out of Cardale's hands.

In our 12-play, 75-yard TD drive Oregon after closed to 21-20, Zeke ran six times for 44 yards...Cardale completed three of four passes for 29 yards and ran twice for 2 yards. Both Zeke and Cardale handles the ball six times on that drive. That gave us an 8-point lead and a little breathing room.

On the next drive, in which we again scored a TD, although we ran seven of nine plays--with four different players carrying the ball--Cardale still passed twice, both of which resulted in first downs and significant gains (23 and 19 yards). That TD put us up by 15 points, and from that point on there was no reason for Cardale to pass, although he did carry two more times for eight yards in the last two possessions.

 

[Hstead]

Things to consider -

Wisky had no clue how to game plan for Cardale since he was a total unknown and Eze ran for 200+, no way you can surmise that Cardale's big arm is responsible for Eze having more yards due to Cardale's deep threat. The O-line was clicking on all cylinders. So I am not buying Cardale opens up the offense more for Eze. My opinion.

Eze vs Cardale in the Ntaional Championship game - field position had a great deal to do with why Eze had more touches, we were backed up against the goal line multiple possessions so that needs to be taken into account. You can't just look at touches, situations determine a lot of the touches.

Braxton - Pre season ending injury, the guy that most claim crafted the greatest coaching job in history had Braxton as his number 1 and JT and Cardale were a DISTANT 2 and 3. People forget quickly how good Braxton was and his completion percentage was much the same as JTs. The question remains how good will Braxtonbe now.

 

[pnuts34]

The other 2 were distant back ups because Braxton was a known entity coming off of a B1G championship and Orange bowl berth and was top 5 in He is man voting. Throughout the year and going into last year though, still many questioned Braxtons passing ability. No one has ever questioned his athleticism, but as far as being an overall QB he has never been one while at OSU. Braxton had a decent completion percentage because he hardly threw the ball. Sure its easy to throw the ball for a decent percentage when in certain games you hardly throw the ball. Braxton had almost 60 less attempts and over 800 less yards passing than JT. Braxton has a lot of work to do if he is trying to get his starting job back. He's coming back from a very serious injury, and is fighting a kid who won the B1G championship, sugar bowl and NC, and a kid that broke a good number of Buckeye QB records and finished #5 in the he is an voting as well. Braxton at this time could be seen as a distant 3rd

Things to consider -

Wisky had no clue how to game plan for Cardale since he was a total unknown and Eze ran for 200+, no way you can surmise that Cardale's big arm is responsible for Eze having more yards due to Cardale's deep threat. The O-line was clicking on all cylinders. So I am not buying Cardale opens up the offense more for Eze. My opinion.

Eze vs Cardale in the Ntaional Championship game - field position had a great deal to do with why Eze had more touches, we were backed up against the goal line multiple possessions so that needs to be taken into account. You can't just look at touches, situations determine a lot of the touches.

Braxton - Pre season ending injury, the guy that most claim crafted the greatest coaching job in history had Braxton as his number 1 and JT and Cardale were a DISTANT 2 and 3. People forget quickly how good Braxton was and his completion percentage was much the same as JTs. The question remains how good will Braxtonbe now.

 

[matcar]

The other 2 were distant back ups because Braxton was a known entity coming off of a B1G championship and Orange bowl berth and was top 5 in He is man voting. Throughout the year and going into last year though, still many questioned Braxtons passing ability. No one has ever questioned his athleticism, but as far as being an overall QB he has never been one while at OSU. Braxton had a decent completion percentage because he hardly threw the ball. Sure its easy to throw the ball for a decent percentage when in certain games you hardly throw the ball. Braxton had almost 60 less attempts and over 800 less yards passing than JT. Braxton has a lot of work to do if he is trying to get his starting job back. He's coming back from a very serious injury, and is fighting a kid who won the B1G championship, sugar bowl and NC, and a kid that broke a good number of Buckeye QB records and finished #5 in the he is an voting as well. Braxton at this time could be seen as a distant 3rd

Wow. Distant 3rd. If healthy, which I'll grant, is a big IF, he's not 3rd. No way.

 

[Buckerooni]

I just have to say - it is so much fun reading this thread. Let's see . . . which on of these three brilliant gems, which are all much shinier than any thing any one else has, should we wear next season? The first one goes better with our eyes, but wow, that second one really shows off our complexion, but that third one, it matches so perfectly with our favorite outfits . . . so hard to choose!

These are the best of times. Has any fan base, ever, had the privilege of having a discussion like this? It is a good day to be a Buckeye.