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2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

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1926Buckeyes said:
I hope Barrett gets there too. That would be an amazing season for him and us.
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As we all do. It would be amazing (albeit bittersweet) if JT is so dominant that Braxton is truly not in the conversation to start.
The differences in last year offense and personnel compared to this year just skew the comparisons between JT and Miller for me. JT is doing great things and the passing offense has been much better with him under center, but he's playing with 3 new targets who, while maligned for the drops are a significant upgrade from last year (especially Thomas), as well as a clearly matured Wilson.
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Exactly. Philly was an effective weapon but the only WR who could get open and catch the football. Devin could get open but would he catch it? Spencer struggled to separate and catch the ball. Fields was okay. Wilson was largely a one trick pony and not ready to execute the offense or blocking needed to be a consistent performer. None of them was particularly adept at turning a 5 yd hitch into a big gain (Philly was solid but Thomas has already had more in a few games and neither of them are Marshall or Wilson).

2 of the 3 best WRs were not playing last year (Thomas, Marshall). Wilson played but was half as effective as the stronger, quicker, more comfortable sophomore we see today (despite some inconsistent hands).

They had a dominant downhill rushing attack and line but they had to take away their only consistent WR to make the horizontal rushing attack work.
The playcalling has also moved from mostly vertical routes to a lot of touch passes and shorter routes making the passing game much more consistent and allows the QB to get into a rhythm.

Part of that is thanks to Barrett having better touch, but I also think that the coaches were working in a system that was overly reliant on an all or nothing pass game until the VA Tech game opened up their eyes a bit. Miller might not be putting up the numbers Barrett is through the air, but I think he'd be a lot closer than many think.
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I hope this is true as well. I love the maturation of the constraints and playaction fakes. Say what you will about Braxton's weaknesses but the lack of a true H really limited their offense last year. Teams are so concerned about the dominant touch pass looks that Vannett or even Barrett are wide open on the backside.
 
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jwinslow said:
I hope this is true as well. I love the maturation of the constraints and playaction fakes. Say what you will about Braxton's weaknesses but the lack of a true H really limited their offense last year. Teams are so concerned about the dominant touch pass looks that Vannett or even Barrett are wide open on the backside.
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Do you read what you write?
Why was this not the case the last two seasons?
 
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lvbuckeye said:
He's the best athlete in an awful B1G.
He's NOT the best quarterback.
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He's the best overall quarterback, and was a serious Heisman contender heading into the season. You mentioned earlier "JT is on pace for ~4k yards and 40 tds THIS YEAR." Well, we won't be playing Kent State and Cincinnati all year, so...
 
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me this many times, shame on me. Here I thought you could answer a Yes or No question about 4k yds, but even when it's your own talking point, you side step it :lol:
lvbuckeye said:
I expect to see exactly what I saw last year. An amazing, dynamic runner, subpar passer, subpar reader of defenses, who trusts his legs more than his brain or arm, and a coaching staff that does the same and calls plays accordingly.

Herman's big mistake against VT was that he called the Braxton offense instead of the Guiton offense.
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Herman had a line that didn't protect the QB, didn't clear any rushing lanes, WRs that dropped swing passes, uncontested passes and 50-50 balls, and a green RB & QB who weren't ready for that moment. Herman magically became a good playcaller when the same disastrous rushing plays went for solid to enormous yardage. There were things he could have done better but execution was a far bigger problem that night (and the reason I was excited about the potential of JT despite the performance).
Your "JT hasn't done it against a good D yet" argument is crap. Braxton didn't do it against crap defenses. He didn't do it against good defenses either.
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UW 281 yds 4 TD
NW 271 yds 0 TD
PS 320 yds 5 TD
PU 240 yds 4 TD (blowout)
ILL 334 yds 3 TD
IU 304 yds 4 TD
UM 286 yds 5 TD
MS 243 yds 3 TD
CL 269 yds 4 TD

283 YPG 3.55 TDPG - Braxton in B1G/Bowl play

326 YPG 3.8 TDPG - JT Barrett thus far


Will he keep up this pace in B1G play? Or might he stop throwing and running wild (like 6 TDs in a half) when Minnesota, Michigan State and yes even Michigan are on the opposing sidelines? The slate is hardly daunting but it's a step up from the creme puffs since VT.
 
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Hooray, an actual post addressing what I typed (albeit the sliver that works for your argument) and not the long list of comments discussing the offensive nuances and differences between the offenses.
lvbuckeye said:
Do you read what you write?
Why was this not the case the last two seasons?
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Did you see a dominant horizontal running game last year? I saw Philly playing out of position and Dontre being nothing but a decoy (and a far less effective ballcarrier).

I seriously doubt you're arguing that Braxton can't execute a touch pass.

Which leaves us with Braxton isn't capable of seeing and/or throwing to the tight ends.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
Yep, because Miami OH, UCF, Cal and UAB were murderer's row...
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Speaking of this:

368 yds 3 td MIA
296 yds 4 td UCF
324 yds 5 td CAL
207 yds 2 td UAB

followed up by:

315 yds 1 td MSU

Braxton played in 2011 but that did more harm than good and received much worse coaching than Mr. Barrett. I'd say they were at similar points in their development in those seasons, despite the redshirt being preserved by Braxton/Kenny for JT.

JT's opening slate: 276 yds 2 td ... 289 2 td ... 318 yds 6 td ... 409 yds 4 td

BM '12 vs JT '14 first 4 games, ranked by yardage

207 - 2 ... 276 - 2
296 - 4 ... 289 - 2
324 - 5 ... 318 - 6
368 - 3 ... 409 - 4


Is JT playing fantastic for a freshman? Absolutely. Is it enough to prematurely bench Miller? No, especially not without seeing what Braxton can do with a more diverse offense.
 
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jwinslow said:
Speaking of this:

368 yds 3 td MIA
296 yds 4 td UCF
324 yds 5 td CAL
207 yds 2 td UAB

followed up by:

315 yds 1 td MSU

Braxton played in 2011 but that did more harm than good and received much worse coaching than Mr. Barrett. I'd say they were at similar points in their development in those seasons, despite the redshirt being preserved by Braxton/Kenny for JT.

JT's opening slate: 276 yds 2 td ... 289 2 td ... 318 yds 6 td ... 409 yds 4 td

BM '12 vs JT '14 first 4 games, ranked by yardage

207 - 2 ... 276 - 2
296 - 4 ... 289 - 2
324 - 5 ... 318 - 6
368 - 3 ... 409 - 4


Is JT playing fantastic for a freshman? Absolutely. Is it enough to prematurely bench Miller? No, especially not without seeing what Braxton can do with a more diverse offense.
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The stats were already posted by myself.
JT has more passing yards, Braxton has more rushing yards. TDs are tied, JT has a slight edge in total yards.

The offense isn't going to be more diverse with Braxton. It was more diverse with Kenny last year, and it's more diverse with JT this year. The data set with Braxton is too large to ignore. It should be glaringly obvious.

Braxton has huge upside. He's the most dynamic runner in all of football. He also has a large downside. He's a one-read-and-run guy, with limited touch. Always has been. Tigers don't change their stripes. He also has a very bad habit of retreating into huge losses.

Sorry for not buying into the cult of Braxton. The argument against JT is that he's putting up these numbers against hot garbage, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Braxton put up his 24 straight wins against hot garbage, with a MUCH better line, and Carlos Freaking Hyde no less.

Braxton is a known commodity. JT is already a better passer, and has a higher ceiling.

I'll take the better passer seven days a week, and twice on Sundays.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
Apparently you missed the head-to-head matchup, and one guy winning his bowl game while the other guy lost his.
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Comical. You finally get someone to utter the strawman that you invented for me (lauding Braxton as an overall QB) and you can't help but bring even more apples to the orange party. You could have just talked about how well Cook has played this year and taken serious strides beyond his 2013 self but nope, it had to be the incredibly complex head to head outcome.

Connor played a Kent State esque defense in S&G while Braxton faced an incredibly rare elite defense in a defenseless era of CFB. On one hand you have Lippett and Kings making great plays while Devin & Spencer drop contested and uncontested passes all day. You have MSU safeties that cover more consistently than OSU's corners and two first round talents at CB versus a secondary that is doing well when they avoid blowing coverages for a quarter or they actually catch a pass thrown to them.

Then there is the bowl game against the terrible stanford secondary. Cook did little to nothing (punting on 3 straight drives) early. Led a nice TD drive. Then Cook threw a terrible pass for a pick six, followed up by an impressive TD drive before half. The end result is 14 & -7 pts scored by Cook

2 qtrs, 7 net points for cook.

After halftime he led them to an opening FG. MSU intercepts Stanford. MSU uses langfords and penalties to move 30 yds and punt (no completions). Stanford gets to the MSU 36 and is stopped on downs. Langford runs for 9, 7, 7 & 11, followed by 4 & 11 yd passes by Cook. Langford runs for 4 and fumbles.

3 qtrs, 10 net points for Cook.

3 & out by Stanford deep in their territory, punt fielded at midfield and returned to Stan 27. Two nice passes (9 & 25) by Cook to take the lead with a passing TD.

3 & out by Stanford.

4 & out by MSU.

5 min FG drive by Stanford.

3 & out by MSU.

4 & out by Stanford (all rushes).

kneel.


17 net points for Cook. 317 net yds for Cook, 2 TD 1 INT 1 pick six. The kind of production that would have people questioning Braxton's proficiency as a QB.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
I'll take the better passer seven days a week, and twice on Sundays.
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and if Barrett fails and you have to bench him, you now have 0 QBs. That's definitely the way to go, benching and alienating a legendary Buckeye weapon a few weeks after surgery because the backup came in and torched 4 out of the 5 bad defenses. And yes, Va Tech is a bad defense, they just aren't hideous like the other 4.

They shouldn't stand behind a loyal and explosive buckeye, see how his rehabilitation goes, let him unleash his talents with an even more developed set of weapons in 2015 and then make the best decision for the program.
 
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