2015-16 Ohio State Quarterback Discussion

[kujirakira]

I don't see him having any real streaks. He threw a fair amount of balls away--smartly. He was also facing some fairly good pass pressure against Alabama, and early against Oregon.

Agreed on everything else (I am being nitpicky), but...

Started 2/8 against Alabama. Pulled it down rather than throwing away early against Oregon, but both those teams had early success making us 1d for a bit. Some heart-attack moments in both games with Cardale running around the endzone too.
Throwing away now and then is all good, but 2/8 is a bit much... and then there was that time he should've thrown it away and fumbled.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Agreed on everything else (I am being nitpicky), but...

Started 2/8 against Alabama. Pulled it down rather than throwing away early against Oregon, but both those teams had early success making us 1d for a bit. Some heart-attack moments in both games with Cardale running around the endzone too.
Throwing away now and then is all good, but 2/8 is a bit much... and then there was that time he should've thrown it away and fumbled.

I see your concern, but again, look at the situation, especially with Alabama. It was only his second-ever start, after a three-week break. His having a slow start againt that defense in that situation is understandable.

The one "heart-attack" moment near the end zone against Oregon was due to an OL whiffing on a block and then Zeke getting trucked on his block, and Cardale did a good job of avoiding the safety and throwing the ball away still under pressure. And IIRC, on the very next play, he threw that rocket strike to Corey Smith to convert and 3rd-and-long. Now his Jameis Winston imitation was an anomaly and I seriously doubt we ever see anything like that again from him.

 

[JXC]

Read option won't get fixed that easy for Cardale. He has been struggling with it his whole career. He isn't a good decision maker in that aspect. And the fumble we saw in the NCG is something that happened a lot in practice. They really just took the read out of it for him. It's fine, he has other strengths, but read option isn't one of them. If he is to start next year, the focus will be on his strengths, and not trying to make him a read option guy.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

With Cardale at QB, we scored more points against Wisconsin than anyone else did, more points against Oregon than anyone else did, and more points against Alabama than anyone else did except for Auburn (and 19 points more than any other team).

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Read option won't get fixed that easy for Cardale. He has been struggling with it his whole career.

You're kidding, right? How many game snaps did he take in his "whole career" before taking the field against Wisconsin? And of those snaps, how many were actual read-option plays rather than simply running the ball to bleed the clock?

EDIT: Just check his stats for 2013:

Rushing: 17 carries, 128 yards (7.5 ypc), 1 TD
Passing: 1-2-0, 3 yards, 0 TD

 

[JXC]

With Cardale at QB, we scored more points against Wisconsin than anyone else did, more points against Oregon than anyone else did, and more points against Alabama than anyone else did except for Auburn (and 19 points more than any other team).

And with JT at QB we scored more points against MSU than anyone else did. The team just showed up in big games, no matter who was QB. I am more than fine with either, and it's great to have the depth if one gets hurt. It's also nice to know that we can score points in a lot of different ways!

I think the offseason determines who starts, but as a fan I am more excited to see what Cardale can do and how good he can really be in the passing game/ scramble. He reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. I think it would be slightly more fun to watch. But an offense with JT would probably be equally as hard to stop.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I think the offseason determines who starts, but as a fan I am more excited to see what Cardale can do and how good he can really be in the passing game/ scramble. He reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. I think it would be slightly more fun to watch. But an offense with JT would probably be equally as hard to stop.

Other than the Roethlisberger comparison, I agree with what you said 100%...

 

[JXC]

You're kidding, right? How many game snaps did he take in his "whole career" before taking the field against Wisconsin? And of those snaps, how many were actual read-option plays rather than simply running the ball to bleed the clock?

Trust me. They've tried and tried, even before the JT injury, to get him comfortable with it. He isn't. It was particularly bad before the championship game. Correctly running the read option isn't something that one just struggles with in practice and then turns on during the games.

Other aspects, X factor, scrambles, making something out of nothing. Those things you can't show in practice as much as in full game speed, and boy did he ever. He excels when the lights turn on in those areas.

 

[JXC]

Other than the Roethlisberger comparison, I agree with what you said 100%...

Comparison was equally tough to bring down in pocket and laser accurate arm. Was like watching a man play against boys when Ben was at Miami. And I get the same feel watching Cardale. Cardale is a better runner and a better person though. Ben saw the field really damn well, but if Cardale starts doing that, watch out.

 

[matcar]

You're kidding, right? How many game snaps did he take in his "whole career" before taking the field against Wisconsin? And of those snaps, how many were actual read-option plays rather than simply running the ball to bleed the clock?

EDIT: Just check his stats for 2013:

Rushing: 17 carries, 128 yards (7.5 ypc), 1 TD
Passing: 1-2-0, 3 yards, 0 TD

The read option isn't necessarily a good fit for Cardale - not just because he's not proficient in it, but also because he's not elusive. Cardale has excellent top end speed for such a big guy, but he's not particularly quick for a read option QB. I suspect he will always struggle with that area.

 

[kujirakira]

With Cardale at QB, we scored more points against Wisconsin than anyone else did, more points against Oregon than anyone else did, and more points against Alabama than anyone else did except for Auburn (and 19 points more than any other team).

To be honest, I think that happens with any of the 3 QBs starting (healthy of course).
To contradict myself, Cardale probably was the best weapon for Alabama - they were susceptible to deep balls all year, especially Jackson (#4 I think). When I saw what Auburn did to that poor kid, I was licking my chops hoping they'd start him over the DB (can't remember name) that replaced him in the 2nd half of that game. And lo and behold, Devin vs. Jackson played out beautifully with Cardale's arm.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

The read option isn't necessarily a good fit for Cardale - not just because he's not proficient in it, but also because he's not elusive. Cardale has excellent top end speed for such a big guy, but he's not particularly quick for a read option QB. I suspect he will always struggle with that area.

Disagree with his quickness and elusiveness. While not in the same category as Miller or Barrett, he does have some moves. He juked a LB on a long run (Wisconsin?) and he's leaped several defenders on runs. People see him a lumbering when he does actual have decent moves. I think some folks here are letting the miscue between him and Zeke in the title game cloud their judgment...

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

To be honest, I think that happens with any of the 3 QBs starting (healthy of course).
To contradict myself, Cardale probably was the best weapon for Alabama - they were susceptible to deep balls all year, especially Jackson (#4 I think). When I saw what Auburn did to that poor kid, I was licking my chops hoping they'd start him over the DB (can't remember name) that replaced him in the 2nd half of that game. And lo and behold, Devin vs. Jackson played out beautifully with Cardale's arm.

The biggest thing that the deep ball threat that Jones poses vice Barrett or Miller is that it stretches the defense (see Ross Fulton's earlier write-up), opening up running lanes (along with intermediate passing routes). It's no coincidence that Zeke had his three best rushing games with Cardale at QB...

 

[matcar]

Disagree with his quickness and elusiveness. While not in the same category as Miller or Barrett, he does have some moves. He juked a LB on a long run (Wisconsin?) and he's leaped several defenders on runs. People see him a lumbering when he does actual have decent moves. I think some folks here are letting the miscue between him and Zeke in the title game cloud their judgment...

I could be wrong, but I don't see it. That doesn't mean that I don't think the offense of brain trust can't find ways to make him very effective, and because of that he might be the best option. But I don't see him being the best read option QB on our team. That's why I assume Barrett will ultimately win the job.

 

[kujirakira]

The biggest thing that the deep ball threat that Jones poses vice Barrett or Miller is that it stretches the defense (see Ross Fulton's earlier write-up), opening up running lanes (along with intermediate passing routes). It's no coincidence that Zeke had his three best rushing games with Cardale at QB...

You mean this one?
We're on the same page in my imo, just differ on slight preferences. I'm ecstatic with whoever the staff goes with - just hope all 3 stay healthy.

I'm partial to JT's ability to distribute and run read option... but when you have a QB who poses such a deep threat that the secondary is practically playing prevent... man that opens some stuff up.

From 11w's Ross Fulton breakdown
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...v-oregon-national-championship-film-breakdown