2014 NFL (Well, Browns, so, sorta "NFL") Draft Thread

[LordJeffBuck]

2- Yeah because having no WR really has worked wonders for us in years past lol. We never have a WR worth a crap and ironically we sucked still. The NFL is a passing league now thru and thru. Overall you seem like someone who knows less than they think.

Ah, using "lol" in a post - that is a sure sign of genius.

Josh Gordon led the the league in receiving yards last year despite missing the first two games of the season. How did that work out for the Browns? Meanwhile, New England made it to the AFC championship game with a wide receiving corps of Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Tompkins, and Aaron Dobson. You got any of those guys on your fantasy team, Chief?

Look at all the Superbowl winners since 2000, a large majority of those teams had a good passing game. New England 3 times, Colts with Manning, NO Saints, GB, NYG had good passing with Eli, even Big Ben got his last one done largely with a good passing game.

Here's the list, in case you couldn't find it anywhere:

2000-01: Baltimore Ravens (dominating defense)
2001-02: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2002-03: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (dominating defense)
2003-04: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2004-05: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2005-06: Pittsburgh Steelers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2006-07: Indianapolis Colts (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2007-08: New York Giants (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2008-09: Pittsburgh Steelers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2009-10: New Orleans Saints (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2010-11: Green Bay Packers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2011-12: New York Giants (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2012-13: Baltimore Ravens (they weren't very good at anything)
2013-14: Seattle Seahawks (dominating defense and running game)

Do you see a pattern forming?

And where are all of the Hall of Fame wide receivers from those teams? I'll give you Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne from the 2006-07 Colts team, but where are the rest of them? Hines Ward? Jordy Nelson? Really?

A "good passing game" means a franchise quarterback. Give a franchise quarterback mediocre wide receivers - like Tom Brady has had for his entire career - and he will win. Give a mediocre quarterback a great receiving corps - the Browns in 2013 - and you go 4-12.

to make your point is one thing, but your arrogant "I'm superior to you listen here" attitude is pathetic my man.

Well, someone is going to win this argument, and that person will be "superior". Give it your best shot.

I know plenty about football.

You've had plenty of chances to prove it, but.... Well, I guess that I'd better not say anything, at the risk of sounding too superior.

is asking for us to be the best passing team in the league, but last time I checked our RB now Ben Tate has never been a #1 guy, has a tendency to get dinged up, so it's perfectly reasonable to want a nice passing game so we don't have to depend soley on him.... your highness!

The Browns had a "nice passing game" last season - they ranked 11th in the league, had the league's leading receiver (Josh Gordon), and two Pro Bowl selections (Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron). That "nice passing game" earned them a 4-12 record.

 

[Mike80]

Just for clarification, I can't think of a single poster that liked the Weeden pick.

A lot of us that hated the Weeden pick absolutely hated the Quinn pick too. I think there might be a thread or 2 about it

 

[exhawg]

A lot of us that hated the Weeden pick absolutely hated the Quinn pick too. I think there might be a thread or 2 about it

As much as I think Manziel is a giant douche I hate picking him less than I hated Quinn and Weeden. He at least has the potential to be very good. He also has the potential to be the worst of the 3. As long as the coaches have an honest competition between him and Hoyer I'm not too worried. He's going to have to study his ass off to beat out Hoyer. I like the Connor Shaw pickup as well. I wonder if Vince Young can play WR?

 

[Mike80]

As much as I think Manziel is a giant douche I hate picking him less than I hated Quinn and Weeden. He at least has the potential to be very good. He also has the potential to be the worst of the 3. As long as the coaches have an honest competition between him and Hoyer I'm not too worried. He's going to have to study his ass off to beat out Hoyer. I like the Connor Shaw pickup as well. I wonder if Vince Young can play WR?

well I don't think we'll be calling him Captain Checkdown or wondering where the hell the underhanded passes came from.....

 

[jwinslow]

Passing is required to win in this league.

except it isn't, as demonstrated by the two premiere teams in the game last year, the 49ers and the Seahawks.

I never said the Brown's had to sling it 50 times a game. I simply said we need to have a good passing attack. Then it gets twisted like I suggested we needed to have Peyton Manning, primetime Jerry Rice and Michael Irving. I was ok with not taking Watkins until I realize Gordon is likely out for the year and we knew it before that. We have to consider that his time with CLE here is short, if he isn't smart enough to not get busted for like his what 3rd time or something in life, what makes you think he won't do it again and get banned ever longer than a year? We have to consider the fact he may not be here in a few years and that's where a guy like Watkins would have been great. Instead bc I'm disliked on here it gets turned into me somehow saying we need to have the best passing attack ever.

It's not panicking taking Sammy Watkins... or even in the 2nd a guy like Marqis Lee. That isn't panicking...

Taking Sammy Watkins as a replacement for Gordon is crossing your fingers that he will be an all pro wideout. Even if he is, that still lands you right back in the same spot as you were in last season. 2 talented weapons in the passing game and a roster with too many holes to avoid the top of the draft.

They determined that their other weaknesses were more glaring and drafted accordingly.

 

[stowfan]

The Browns for once, seemed to have a plan in place and stuck to it.

 

[exhawg]

except it isn't, as demonstrated by the two premiere teams in the game last year, the 49ers and the Seahawks.

Taking Sammy Watkins as a replacement for Gordon is crossing your fingers that he will be an all pro wideout. Even if he is, that still lands you right back in the same spot as you were in last season. 2 talented weapons in the passing game and a roster with too many holes to avoid the top of the draft.

They determined that their other weaknesses were more glaring and drafted accordingly.

I agree with this. Adding a second (hopefully) shutdown corner and nickle cover LB patches the two biggest holes in a good defense from last year.

Adding a mauler at RG or RT to what the Browns already have with hopefully a healthy Chris Faulk in the mix can turn the Browns OL into one of the better units in the NFL. Any QB or WR group will look better if you can force a defense to pack 8-9 guys in the box to stop the run.

If these picks work out they will have 2 first rounder next year to figure out WR. This is going to be Little's year to step up and be a consistent #2 WR or he will be gone next year. Even if Gordon gets his suspension reduced I'm not counting on him in the Browns future plans. If he can get clean and play that's great, but I'm going into the draft and FA period next year pretending like Josh Gordon doesn't exist.

 

[stowfan]

Yahoo liked the Brown's draft:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...grades--how-did-your-team-fare-022502802.html

 

[Buckeneye]

Even if Gordon gets his suspension reduced I'm not counting on him in the Browns future plans. If he can get clean and play that's great, but I'm going into the draft and FA period next year pretending like Josh Gordon doesn't exist.

I have my doubts about Gilbert. Some of his film is rough to watch when he's in space.

As for Gordon, that's just a great conundrum. Do we accept a trade offer? Obviously after this 2nd failed test its more than likely it will be significantly lower than what had (allegedly) been offered in December. Which brings me to another point - now that said offer could in fact be lower, does the front office feel he can redeem himself and that the talent is worth weighing against a potential late round pick? (Again, speculation on what might be offered)

 

[exhawg]

I have my doubts about Gilbert. Some of his film is rough to watch when he's in space.

As for Gordon, that's just a great conundrum. Do we accept a trade offer? Obviously after this 2nd failed test its more than likely it will be significantly lower than what had (allegedly) been offered in December. Which brings me to another point - now that said offer could in fact be lower, does the front office feel he can redeem himself and that the talent is worth weighing against a potential late round pick? (Again, speculation on what might be offered)

Just like last year any trade won't get you the value that you will get with Gordon being on the field. I'd guess they give him one more chance. If he fails another test his NFL career is over.

Be nice if the NFL would lighten up on weed and limit banned substances to performance enhancers, but on the other hand can't you give up pot for 5-10 years while you play in the NFL? My company tests for pot so I don't smoke pot if I really wanted to smoke I'd go find a job someplace that doesn't care.

 

[LitlBuck]

I have my doubts about Gilbert. Some of his film is rough to watch when he's in space.

As for Gordon, that's just a great conundrum. Do we accept a trade offer? Obviously after this 2nd failed test its more than likely it will be significantly lower than what had (allegedly) been offered in December. Which brings me to another point - now that said offer could in fact be lower, does the front office feel he can redeem himself and that the talent is worth weighing against a potential late round pick? (Again, speculation on what might be offered)

I heard an interview with Farmer before the draft and they asked him how they were evaluating talent. He says that they do not pay much attention to Pro days or the combine or even individual workouts but the one thing that they do do is watch lots and lots of tape as specific players. So he has probably watched more tape on Gilbert then anyone on this board so I guess I will just trust his judgment.

If or when Gordon is reinstated, I do not think any team is going to be willing to give up anything for him. I think the Browns are just going to have to cut their losses.

I really do not understand why marijuana is banned by the NFL.. I do not think it is a performance-enhancing drug but since I have never smoked it I would not know. However with some states legalizing it, the NFL might be on some shaky ground. It will be interesting to see what comes out of this going forward.

 

[Buckeneye]

He says that they do not pay much attention to Pro days or the combine or even individual workouts but the one thing that they do do is watch lots and lots of tape as specific players. So he has probably watched more tape on Gilbert then anyone on this board so I guess I will just trust his judgment.

Which is the approach that should be taken. I've no doubt he's watched more tape than any of us combined, that's what he's paid to do. I also trust that every draft picks success or failure rests on his shoulders - not mine. So that's a relief

 

[ArmyVet83]

It does appear that Farmer and the coaches saw something we as fans did not see that the team needs to improve on, especially on pass defense. We knew the team needed a CB opposite Haden (Gilbert) and an OLB better in pass coverage than what the Browns already have on the roster (Kirksley). Pierre was a surprise but a very nice pick-up based on where the Browns drafted him. One thing for certain is the Browns defense got more speed and hopefully better pass coverage.

We also knew a QB (Johnny Football) was going to be drafted; an OL (Bitoni (a bit surprised he was picked this early based on his overall grade (3-4 round)); and a RB (not the one we had hoped for but a tough runner none the less.

Based on that, the management stuck to their game plan for the draft and drafted reasonably well (and added three picks next year (1st and 4th from the Bills and a 6th from the Ravens).

However, it doesn't fix the hole at WR. They are bringing in several undrafted FA but that doesn't replace a number one like Gordon. As mentioned, there are a couple of attractive FAs that haven't been signed yet. One is Santonio Holmes and the other is Miles Austin. If I'm management, I would bring in both to see what they have to offer. Both could use an opportunity to reseurrect their careers in Cleveland. Bring them in and if they are worthy, sign them to a 1-yr deal with incentives.

 

[HOLYBUCKEYE10]

Ah, using "lol" in a post - that is a sure sign of genius.

Josh Gordon led the the league in receiving yards last year despite missing the first two games of the season. How did that work out for the Browns? Meanwhile, New England made it to the AFC championship game with a wide receiving corps of Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Tompkins, and Aaron Dobson. You got any of those guys on your fantasy team, Chief?

CLE tried pretty good to sign Edelman. Him and Amendola are better than anyone we have now. That's how sad our WR core is right now, we can't even outdo NE's crap last year. One tiny issue here though, we don't have a Tom Brady. We have two unproven guys. IF we had the luxury of having 3 time SB winner Tom Brady we could likely overcome a bad WR core....
Here's the list, in case you couldn't find it anywhere:

2000-01: Baltimore Ravens (dominating defense)
2001-02: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2002-03: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (dominating defense)
2003-04: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2004-05: New England Patriots (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2005-06: Pittsburgh Steelers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2006-07: Indianapolis Colts (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2007-08: New York Giants (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2008-09: Pittsburgh Steelers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2009-10: New Orleans Saints (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2010-11: Green Bay Packers (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2011-12: New York Giants (Hall of Fame quarterback)
2012-13: Baltimore Ravens (they weren't very good at anything)
2013-14: Seattle Seahawks (dominating defense and running game)

Do you see a pattern forming?
Yeah, almost all those teams have at least one WR better than our does now. I sure see that pattern. Anquan Bolden was better and still in fact might be better than any WR we have now. Troy Brown was better than anyone we have now for NE in their first. Heins Ward was better than anyone we have now. As you mentioned, Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison are better than anyone we have now. Plaxico Burres for NYG in 07 is better than anyone we have now. Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were better than anyone we have now. Marques Colston is better than anyone we have now. Greg Jennings for GB was better than anyone we have now. QB's need good WR's just as bad as good WR's need good QB's. Ask Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers etc.... would they be anywhere the QB they are today without some damn good WRs? We have Greg Little a guy most people wanted to cut now as a our main option. Hahaha.

And where are all of the Hall of Fame wide receivers from those teams? I'll give you Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne from the 2006-07 Colts team, but where are the rest of them? Hines Ward? Jordy Nelson? Really?

A "good passing game" means a franchise quarterback. Give a franchise quarterback mediocre wide receivers - like Tom Brady has had for his entire career - and he will win. Give a mediocre quarterback a great receiving corps - the Browns in 2013 - and you go 4-12.
We don't even know what we have at QB. Hoyer played 3 games and JF just got here. We could have an up and coming good QB, but we don't have anyone for him to throw to.

Well, someone is going to win this argument, and that person will be "superior". Give it your best shot.



You've had plenty of chances to prove it, but.... Well, I guess that I'd better not say anything, at the risk of sounding too superior.

Look around the NFL world, I see that about 90% of the NFL is laughing at CLE and confused as to why we did nothing at QB. You can have your buckeyeplanet buddies back you, experts and even casual NFL fans alike know that we have no passing game now.

The Browns had a "nice passing game" last season - they ranked 11th in the league, had the league's leading receiver (Josh Gordon), and two Pro Bowl selections (Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron). That "nice passing game" earned them a 4-12 record.
We didn't have a running game last year. Again for the 5th time I am not asking for an amazing pass o. Last year Gordon lead the nfl sure, and last year we were in a lot of games that we lost because we had an idiot like Brandon Weeden making crucial mistakes that cost us. Even you know that. We addressed the RB position in Tate and nicely backed it up with the West guy... that's fine Instead we regressed on WR now that Gordon is out, regressed badly.

 

[Buckeneye]

Ah, using "lol" in a post - that is a sure sign of genius.

Narrowly avoided "epic lols" - What a treat that would have been.