2013 tOSU Defense Discussion

[OSUK]

I believe we have to recalibrate in our minds what a good defense is. In terms of ppg, I think 20 or under is the new number. If you are averaging 45 a game on offense and you give up 20, you are winning by 3+ TD's. If you want to have a D that gives up 10-15, you need to hire Jim Bollman, run Dave 3 times, punt, play for FG's, and take 3 min off the clock every possession.

That said, you get the sense that we are not where we need to be. The line dominates sometimes, but gets gashed on some running plays. We get pressure sometimes, but not most of the time. We tackle well until we don't. We cover well, and then give up the big play. The ability to be a championship defense is there, but the consistency isn't.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

Pretty obvious how spoiled we are .. from the not-so-long-ago days when we would be pissed if we didn't get a shutout... and we still feel that way..
Goes to show how elitist we are about the talent on the roster..
We'd be pissed if Aaron Rodgers scored on us

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

We'd be pissed if Aaron Rodgers scored on us

Hell yes, we would. He's a professional. That would be cheating!

 

[Jaxbuck]

I believe we have to recalibrate in our minds what a good defense is. In terms of ppg, I think 20 or under is the new number. If you are averaging 45 a game on offense and you give up 20, you are winning by 3+ TD's. If you want to have a D that gives up 10-15, you need to hire Jim Bollman, run Dave 3 times, punt, play for FG's, and take 3 min off the clock every possession.

That said, you get the sense that we are not where we need to be. The line dominates sometimes, but gets gashed on some running plays. We get pressure sometimes, but not most of the time. We tackle well until we don't. We cover well, and then give up the big play. The ability to be a championship defense is there, but the consistency isn't.

Agree 100%.

It still isn't where we should expect in terms of back 7 fits and tackling but I think you touched on the bigger issue quite well. This offense, and the level of offensive football across all of CFB (except in East Lansing), means keeping the opponent in the 20's is the "new norm" to use an overdone phrase.

When we had Tress and Dave my number was always 17 meaning it felt like we HAD to keep an opponent under that because it was so hard to picture our offense doing much more than that. With Urb's offense I look at 27 and am infinitely more confident we can keep most opponents at/under that and almost no one can keep us even in the low 30's.

In essence I can live with giving up an extra 10-14 ppg on defense because I would bet my life we can score a lot more than 10-14 ppg more than the previous offensive staff could muster.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

Agree 100%.

It still isn't where we should expect in terms of back 7 fits and tackling but I think you touched on the bigger issue quite well. This offense, and the level of offensive football across all of CFB (except in East Lansing), means keeping the opponent in the 20's is the "new norm" to use an overdone phrase.

When we had Tress and Dave my number was always 17 meaning it felt like we HAD to keep an opponent under that because it was so hard to picture our offense doing much more than that. With Urb's offense I look at 27 and am infinitely more confident we can keep most opponents at/under that and almost no one can keep us even in the low 30's.

In essence I can live with giving up an extra 10-14 ppg on defense because I would bet my life we can score a lot more than 10-14 ppg more than the previous offensive staff could muster.

Disagree 100%.

Here is the litmus test: Have we seen a NC caliber defensive performance yet from tOSU? I think we clearly have not. I want it fixed because I think by year end our offense will be NC caliber and the defense better be too damn it. Let's quit pussy footing around, tackle and make the INT when it is there to be made. All the above posts about recalibrating, bending and not breaking, etc. is just crap. What in the world does a quick strike offense have to do with making tackles and getting picks when they are there to be made? Sheesh people, raise your expectations and let's raise the crystal ball in the process.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Disagree 100%.

Here is the litmus test: Have we seen a NC caliber defensive performance yet from tOSU? I think we clearly have not. I want it fixed because I think by year end our offense will be NC caliber and the defense better be too damn it. Let's quit pussy footing around, tackle and make the INT when it is there to be made. All the above posts about recalibrating, bending and not breaking, etc. is just crap. What in the world does a quick strike offense have to do with making tackles and getting picks when they are there to be made? Sheesh people, raise your expectations and let's raise the crystal ball in the process.

First, I clearly said the tackling has to get better as well as the run fits from the back 7. That's obvious.

Secondly, As far as what a quick strike offense has to do with it; its about the number of plays run. The more you let the other team run, the more they are going to score on average.

Lastly, yours-mine-the next guys expectations have exactly dick to do with the team raising a crystal football.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

BS. Tackle. Make the INT when it is available. Everything else is an excuse. Roby pushing the guy out of bounds instead of tackling....weak form. He is a stud but play like that is crap.

Have we seen a NC caliber D game yet? I rest my case. And the "we" in raising expecations meant us as fans and the players. They should have higher expecations than pushing players out of bounds instead of wrapping them up.

 

[Jaxbuck]

BS. Tackle. Make the INT when it is available. Everything else is an excuse. Roby pushing the guy out of bounds instead of tackling....weak form. He is a stud but play like that is crap.

Have we seen a NC caliber D game yet? I rest my case. And the "we" in raising expecations meant us as fans and the players. They should have higher expecations than pushing players out of bounds instead of wrapping them up.

Ok, sorry. I'll type slower next time....... Pretty fucking sure I've said three times now......t-h-e-y n-e-e-d t-o t-a-c-k-l-e b-e-t-t-e-r.

If you can't even be bothered to read the posts you are arguing with then by all means, carry on with your rant and helping out with the trophy lifting.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Ok, sorry. I'll type slower next time....... Pretty fucking sure I've said three times now......t-h-e-y n-e-e-d t-o t-a-c-k-l-e b-e-t-t-e-r.

If you can't even be bothered to read the posts you are arguing with then by all means, carry on with your rant and helping out with the trophy lifting.

Yeah, well.....They need to tackle better, too.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

Jax - you said you agreed "100%" with the comment "I believe we have to recalibrate in our minds what a good defense is" and I disagree. I understand that more defensive plays, by law of average, will yield a greater overall number of mistakes but I don't believe it is proportionate. We are putting the D on the field more but are making far more mistakes proportionately.

Roby pushing a guy out of bounds has ZERO to do with recalibrating expecations which you also agreed "100%" with. I do agree that our defense will do enough to give us a win by keeping most opponents in the low 20's due to our offensive output but accepting weak play like described above is not the same thing. You seemed upset I have not acknowledged your agreement of the tackling issue - fair enough, we agree it is piss poor right now. Do you not also agree that we are not fielding NC caliber defense currently? You too should read all the posts you argue with, that was my larger point. Recalibrating expecations on points allowed is one thing but not making the INT, taking bad angles, and missing tackles is entirely another. We are not an elite D because of these issues.

On that we both fucking a-g-r-e-e yes?

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

Seems to be a lot of tension based on 3 games decided in the first quarter, and in Cal's case the first nine minutes.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Tackling was not near championship caliber at Cal. I would sit whoever the db was that tried a weak push from behind on a long td run.

And just to vent.......is it not a dead give-a-way when the qb lines up as a punter and throws for a first down?

Not sure sitting Bradley Roby is a strong idea overall.

 

[pnuts34]

It's only 3 games into year 2 of a new coaching staff. We're #4 in the nation and undefeated. We're not a NC caliber defense, yet. Give it time. If were letting Illinois drop 35pts on us that late in the season, then we should worry.

 

[buckeye4ever21]

Still disappointed with this side of the ball. There is so much talent on this defense and still so many missed tackles and dropped interceptions. Roby underperformed in this game and was lucky Treggs dropped that TD pass going to the ground. I know the defense was out there for a lot of plays but there were so many defensive plays that stuck out in my mind that either kept drives alive or allowed TDs (roby pushing the receiver instead of tackling him on their first TD, roby dropping a diving int but had both hands on the ball, shaziers hit on the QB out of bounds, Corey browns dropped int.). I think it's just watching so many missed tackles in space that bothers me. But the Dline is killing it, couldn't be more impressed by their effort and pressure.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Jax - you said you agreed "100%" with the comment "I believe we have to recalibrate in our minds what a good defense is" and I disagree. I understand that more defensive plays, by law of average, will yield a greater overall number of mistakes but I don't believe it is proportionate. We are putting the D on the field more but are making far more mistakes proportionately.

Roby pushing a guy out of bounds has ZERO to do with recalibrating expecations which you also agreed "100%" with. I do agree that our defense will do enough to give us a win by keeping most opponents in the low 20's due to our offensive output but accepting weak play like described above is not the same thing. You seemed upset I have not acknowledged your agreement of the tackling issue - fair enough, we agree it is piss poor right now. Do you not also agree that we are not fielding NC caliber defense currently? You too should read all the posts you argue with, that was my larger point. Recalibrating expecations on points allowed is one thing but not making the INT, taking bad angles, and missing tackles is entirely another. We are not an elite D because of these issues.

On that we both fucking a-g-r-e-e yes?

Yeah if you meant expectations of tackling execution I agree with you. I understand why its still happening (somewhat) but its not an excuse. It needs to get better or we will get it handed to us by a really good team.

That said I do indeed think holding opponents in the mid to low 20's is going to be considered "good" not just for our defense but most during this era we find ourselves in. Offenses are just that damned good, the rules all favor the offense and the tempo is much faster.

As far as the 2013 Buckeyes go, I personally expected some early season struggles so I'm not all that worried about it (assuming they continue to improve). Somebody is not only going to have to gash this D for 40+ but hold the O under that to beat us. Not saying its impossible but I really don't see anyone on the schedule that makes me think its probable either.